Ask E. Jean - Tormented? Driven Witless? Whipsawed by confusion?

Advice Vixens

JAIL VS. CHAIR... Do the Vixens believe in the death penalty?

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    No.

    When a person is executed, their blood is on ALL our hands. Each and every one of us are murderers.

    reply to Alek
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    YES! This is Texas, baby! Fry 'em!

    When a person is executed, their blood is on their own hands.

    Check out deadmaneating.blogspot.com

    reply to Raven
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    i think it's hypocritcal and completely unjust to those who have been falsely convicted or truly rehabilitated.

    a lot of people talk economics, that keeping prisoners alive for life sucks up taxpayers dollars in already overcrowded prisons. put prisoners to work improving the physical infrastructure of cities. a) it'll provide a service to all citizens b) it's cheaper than paying city workers and c) it'll teach skills to prisoners who may be eligible for parole and will one day be released back into society.

    plus you don't have to fry anyone, hang anyone, or inject lethal amounts of drugs into anyone.

    reply to Sylvie
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    I do.

    I took a class in a prison last
    semester. So I feel like my answer
    should, or would be different.

    Let me just say that it was one of the coolest
    experiences ever.
    It was 15 students and 15 inmates.
    The inmates did the same papers as
    us...read the same books...and we
    worked in group projects with them.
    Awesome.

    I got highly attached. These men
    in orange and green jumpsuits
    had become my friends.
    It made me sad that they
    had been in and out of prisons
    their entire lives...because they
    are actually really smart...just really
    stupid in making decisions! And I wanted
    nothing more than to help them. Get them
    back on the street...and hold their hand to
    safety.

    Through the class. I learned SO
    much about the prison system.
    And with saying that...we discussed
    the death penalty. And how one gets
    appointed to it...and even though
    I seriously adored the dudes in my
    class...I still can't get the idea out of my head.
    Anyone who can kill a person for no reason
    at all...is a person that I just don't feel
    like living in the same country as.
    I am pretty much an eye for an eye type of gal.

    reply to Amanda
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    Raven wrote: YES! This is Texas, baby! Fry 'em! When a person is executed, their blood is on their own hands. Check out deadmaneating.blogspot.com

    So sex under the same roof as one's parents is blasphemous, but condoning murder isn't?

    Looks like I have much to learn about Humanity. Aw shucks.

    reply to Alek
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    Alek wrote: So sex under the same roof as one's parents is blasphemous, but condoning murder isn't? Looks like I have much to learn about Humanity. Aw shucks.

    The sex as a teen in your parents home is a matter of taste.

    The death penalty is a matter of practicality.

    reply to Raven
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    Raven wrote: YES! This is Texas, baby! Fry 'em! When a person is executed, their blood is on their own hands. Check out deadmaneating.blogspot.com

    Raven, How would you feel if your Husband worked for the state and performed executions? Would you feel differently?

    I'm undecided on the issue, (I can see both sides of the debate) and I appreciate your perspective.

    reply to Blondie
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    I am against it. As a Christian, I feel I do not have the right to take a life.

    reply to Sugah
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    No, I don't believe in the death penalty. I never have. The growing number of convictions that are overturned as a result of DNA evidence is quite compelling. Additionally, I don't think that the death penalty is an effective deterrent (if that was the case, then the crime rate would plummet, right?)

    Interesting question. My boss used to work in the prison system (he's an expert on the criminally insane). I'm curious what he thinks.

    reply to Schmendrick
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    Blondie wrote: Raven, How would you feel if your Husband worked for the state and performed executions? Would you feel differently? I'm undecided on the issue, (I can see both sides of the debate) and I appreciate your perspective.

    I don't think it would bother me that much. I would even go watch some of the executions. I'm very big into justice. My classmates here in Houston were victims of one of the most brutal murders in the nation. I was not close with the girls, but I knew them and this rocked everyone's life who knew them. The girls were Jennifer Ertman and Elizabeth Pena. There's a ton of stuff on the web about what happened. That really solidified my feelings on the issue.

    By the time someone gets the death penalty with all the controversy and anti-death penalty too much time on their hands protesters amateur-investigating the case and whatnot, currently in this day and age, it is certain that they are guilty of the crime, which was heinous for them to be on death row.

    I work in an environment with a lot of ex-cons, etc. and in dealing with my jobs with CPS there are just many evil people out there and I approve of when they are sentenced to death.

    I think it would be worse to be married to a gyno or be a gyno and perform abortions. Don't want to open a can of worms, but this was my first thought when I read your question about a husband dealing death.

    reply to Raven
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    You are a brave woman, Raven.

    reply to Sugah
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    Alek wrote: No. When a person is executed, their blood is on ALL our hands. Each and every one of us are murderers.

    Alek, Did you see "Dead Man Walking"?

    If someone murdered a loved one, would you be ok with them living and possibly being paroled in 30 years?

    I appreciate your perspective.. not trying to stir anything up here.

    reply to Blondie
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    Sugah wrote: You are a brave woman, Raven.

    I love her for it!!

    reply to Blondie
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    Me too. And you for smart questions because above all else I appreciate smart. You can buy fashion and beauty but not smart.

    reply to Sugah
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    Easy question! I'm 100% against the death penalty. If only everyone would take the time to mull over the OVERWHELMING evidence of the American penal system's racist, classist, and all-around inept ways, we wouldn't have such a barbaric code on the books.

    In fact, the American Bar Association just advised enacting a moratorium on all executions after a three year study of their's found how jacked the system is (see above). Among their findings: clemency review is a joke, minorities are disproportionately punished, tampering in crime laboratories is out of control, and juries are (for the most part) poorly informed.

    reply to John
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    Blondie wrote: I love her for it!!

    Thank you both so much. Your words mean a lot to me.

    I respect those who do not support the death penalty and wouldn't try to change their minds.

    reply to Raven
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    Sugah wrote: Me too. And you for smart questions because above all else I appreciate smart. You can buy fashion and beauty but not smart.

    Awww :) Right back at ya!

    reply to Blondie
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    Blondie wrote: Alek, Did you see "Dead Man Walking"? If someone murdered a loved one, would you be ok with them living and possibly being paroled in 30 years? I appreciate your perspective.. not trying to stir anything up here.

    I don't think anyone has the right to determine whether another human being should live or die.

    Not even me. And I'm fairly positive that I am God.

    reply to Alek
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    Alek wrote: I don't think anyone has the right to determine whether another human being should live or die. Not even me. And I'm fairly positive that I am God.

    I've seen the face of God, and it's... a Jackson Pollock painting?

    reply to John
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    John wrote: I've seen the face of God, and it's... a Jackson Pollock painting?

    According to Edina Monsoon's dream in AbFab's "Last Shout," Marianne Faithfull is the higher power.

    reply to Schmendrick
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    Schmendrick wrote: According to Edina Monsoon's dream in AbFab's "Last Shout," Marianne Faithfull is the higher power.

    My bad... you are totes right...


    (Photo: All Posters)

    reply to John
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    My father is head of the Public Defender in Multnomah County, Oregon. Through him, I've met murderers and rapists and some of the most evil and stupid people ever put on this earth. And I don't believe any of them should be put to death. Somebody is murdered, so we kill the murderer. What have we accomplished? Now TWO families are in mourning, the world is deprived of TWO living, breathing, redeemable human beings. How does anyone come out ahead there?

    I do think we need a better system of punishment than prison. The cost to taxpayers is enormous, and the research shows that there it is little deterrent. However, an expensive and cumbersome prison system is not a good reason to kill somebody.

    reply to Laura
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    Let's put it this way... if someone really hurt my daughter or husband, I'd want to see them squirm. It'd be really hard not to torture him/her myself, though. I guess when it comes to pedophiles who are often not able of stopping their crimes, I think it's time to save a few little kids and do away with the sick bastard.

    Cold, but that's how I feel. Molestation destroys.

    And I don't think everyone is redeemable.

    reply to Sonia
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    NO.

    Ugh capital punishment makes me sick...

    As a society we become just as bad as the offender when we start deciding someone should die.

    reply to Taryn
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    Not at all in the formal judicial sense, but I would come after anyone who raped my child and handle it myself.

    reply to Bonnie
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    I just don't get this "Capital Punishment is COMPELETLY WRONG" mentality of a few of you folks. Now I don't think putting people to death is the greatest thing on the planet, but do you guys realize how ridiciously evil some people can really be?

    I know a woman that had an intruder one night. He put a gun to her head and forced her to guide him inside of her daughter.

    There are a few out there that simply don't deserve to live.

    reply to Dan
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    The law of retaliation is such an archaic model of thinking...

    Not to forget that "eye for an eye" is the logical fallacy of two wrongs make a right.

    reply to Alek
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    Alek wrote: The law of retaliation is such an archaic model of thinking... Not to forget that "eye for an eye" is the logical fallacy of two wrongs make a right.

    It's not about eye for an eye or retaliation. It's the fact that some people don't deserve life, they're just that dysfunctional.

    Did I mention that the daughter in my little previous story was twelve at the time?

    reply to Dan
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    Dan wrote: It's not about eye for an eye or retaliation. It's the fact that some people don't deserve life, they're just that dysfunctional. Did I mention that the daughter in my little previous story was twelve at the time?

    So on the basis of dysfunction, the mentally disabled do not deserve to live either?

    Nice.

    Unless America compiles a list of exactly what variations of dysfunction are worthy of death, court-appointed, misinformed juries are in no position to determine that.

    reply to Alek
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    Alek wrote: So on the basis of dysfunction, the mentally disabled do not deserve to live either? Nice. Unless America compiles a list of exactly what variations of dysfunction are worthy of death, court-appointed, misinformed juries are in no position to determine that.

    Not if they eat people and have sex with their dead bodies, no.

    reply to Dan
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    I am not a Christian, but I don't believe in the death penalty. However, if someone hurt someone I love, I might take them on myself;). I can understand personal the eye-for-an-eye more than our current rehabilitation system/death penalty. But I also know there are no easy answers, and can't say how i would act if it I knew a victim of a heinous crime.

    reply to Les
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    I would believe in the death penalty if I had faith in the U.S. justice system. However, I don't trust our justice system at all. Innocent people get convicted of crimes they didn't commit all the time. Often, we don't even hear about it! Crazy. Definitely 100% against the death penalty until major changes happen in this country.

    reply to Jenny
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    Sugah wrote: Me too. And you for smart questions because above all else I appreciate smart. You can buy fashion and beauty but not smart.

    Ah! A catchy phrase... but horrifically untrue in this country.

    Look around you. There are millions of little kids right around the corner from you in neighborhoods whose schools have no funding. Many of these kids have bright little minds that could develop into strong intelligence some day, but probably won't.

    They can't buy smart. But we did. Or our parents bought it for us. Using our minds that have been furthered by good books, parents who had the time to nurture, and in many of our cases, college educations is to have purchased a fair amount of "smart." To use this extraordinary gift of a strong mind to spit out phrases like "Fry 'em!"... You call that smart. I certainly do not.



    P.S. Raven, I adore you. And I do not mean this as any sort of intellectual attack. You are a very smart woman and we all know that... but your phrasing in that first response really boiled my blood and I feel we all have a right to be honest here.

    reply to Jenny
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    Alek wrote: So on the basis of dysfunction, the mentally disabled do not deserve to live either? Nice. Unless America compiles a list of exactly what variations of dysfunction are worthy of death, court-appointed, misinformed juries are in no position to determine that.

    Changing your answer after I responded. Don't confuse me like that, lover.

    You're jumping all over my use of the word dysfunctional. And that's cool, but here's what I'm trying to say,

    If you're in your twenties and you've spent your life raping women for sex, murdering people for the 27 bucks in their pocket, then we don't need you. Society will lose nothing in killing you except the energy coursing throughout your body needed to kill you.

    And while I think some states are a little liberal when it comes to their use of the death penality, I do think it's needed.

    And come on, man, Jeffery Dahmer? People like him deserve to be executed. (And, yes, he was, albeit informally).

    reply to Dan
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    My opinion that the death penalty is wrong does not automatically translate into a belief that prison rehabilitates the guilty. Recidivism rates are certainly indicative of that. I do think that in an open society such as ours, a true life sentence that deprives one of freedom is a more severe punishment than sending him/her to death.

    reply to Schmendrick
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    Jenny wrote: Ah! A catchy phrase... but horrifically untrue in this country. Look around you. There are millions of little kids right around the corner from you in neighborhoods whose schools have no funding. Many of these kids have bright little minds that could develop into strong intelligence some day, but probably won't. They can't buy smart. But we did. Or our parents bought it for us. Using our minds that have been furthered by good books, parents who had the time to nurture, and in many of our cases, college educations is to have purchased a fair amount of "smart." To use this extraordinary gift of a strong mind to spit out phrases like "Fry 'em!"... You call that smart. I certainly do not. P.S. Raven, I adore you. And I do not mean this as any sort of intellectual attack. You are a very smart woman and we all know that... but your phrasing in that first response really boiled my blood and I feel we all have a right to be honest here.

    Jenny, I disagree with you. You can't buy smart. I know plenty of people who had no money growing up and they are extremely smart and successful. Likewise, I know kids with every advantage who are just plain not smart...specific example: teenager (whom I know) with parents who are both MDs, lives in a mansion, drives a new beamer, but is the dumbest kid I've ever met. The only class she had a passing grade in was tennis. It pains me every time I have to read something she wrote.

    We are immigrants. My parents learned English when they came here but not enough to help me with my homework. While it is true I went to a private school, it wasn't until I'd been in a WORKING CLASS school for seven years. When I got to the private school, I was already smarter than most kids, 2nd in my class.

    Historically, I could give you many examples...but let's look closer at current figures: Oprah vs. W. Bush. Need I say more? Wait, let's through in Paris Hilton....

    reply to Sugah
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    Raven wrote: The sex as a teen in your parents home is a matter of taste. The death penalty is a matter of practicality.

    Since when a human life is a matter of practicality? Have we become so numb?

    reply to Cheryl
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    Well, we all pay for shit that we think is not worthwhile, or just plain wrong. It is simply a function of our society. Given how problematic our justice system can be, coupled with the fallibility of human beings, I think we have no choice but to provide 3 hots and a cot to those found guilty by our courts.

    I somehow doubt (admittedly this is speculation on my part), that prisons really focus on rehabilitation of criminals. Prison is a punishment for crimes committed, for a person is deprived of their personal freedom, personal space, etc. Not to mention, the wardrobe is hideous, the food sucks, might become the bitch of some corrupt guards or a fellow prisoner. Gee, I think I'd rather kick it in old sparky!

    reply to Schmendrick
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    It's up to society to set the rules for those in society, and if a jury of one's peers determines that death is the just punishment for a particular crime, then so be it.

    If I went out and murdered someone I'd expect no less than what was coming to me.

    And any bleeding hearts who say they can't judge aren't being truthful. We all judge everyone around us everyday.

    reply to Melanie
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    In theory, I'm against the death penalty. But, then again, when I see on TV, or hear about what a pedophile did to a kid, held them captive for years on end, torturing and molesting them, ruining them for life... Then I think that that kind of person deserves to die for what he did to an innocent child. And it's been said over and over that pedophiles cannot be "rehabilitated". Even the sterilized ones are known to strike again.

    reply to Iva
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    Jenny wrote: Ah! A catchy phrase... but horrifically untrue in this country. Look around you. There are millions of little kids right around the corner from you in neighborhoods whose schools have no funding. Many of these kids have bright little minds that could develop into strong intelligence some day, but probably won't. They can't buy smart. But we did. Or our parents bought it for us. Using our minds that have been furthered by good books, parents who had the time to nurture, and in many of our cases, college educations is to have purchased a fair amount of "smart." To use this extraordinary gift of a strong mind to spit out phrases like "Fry 'em!"... You call that smart. I certainly do not. P.S. Raven, I adore you. And I do not mean this as any sort of intellectual attack. You are a very smart woman and we all know that... but your phrasing in that first response really boiled my blood and I feel we all have a right to be honest here.

    My thoughts exactly on the "YES! fry 'em" comment. Define "them" in fry THEM. Them is us. Would Raven be so enthusiastic to fry her mother/brother/father/husband/ dear friend who did something illegal in affect, or in a fit of temporary insanity and later regretted it.

    Yes, it's tempting to jump and shout "but MY mother/father/brother/ husband/dear friends are perfect, they'd NEVER commit murder or any other heinous crime..." But, hypothetically speaking, if a person let's say, murdered your (hypothetical) brother's wife, and that person was not brought to justice. And in a fit of blind pain and rage, your brother kills her killer. Would you then be shouting "fry the bastard". Or would you while not condoning his deed, understand his motive. Or what about women who murder their husbands after suffering years of abuse?

    reply to Iva
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    Raven wrote: I don't think it would bother me that much. I would even go watch some of the executions. I'm very big into justice. My classmates here in Houston were victims of one of the most brutal murders in the nation. I was not close with the girls, but I knew them and this rocked everyone's life who knew them. The girls were Jennifer Ertman and Elizabeth Pena. There's a ton of stuff on the web about what happened. That really solidified my feelings on the issue. By the time someone gets the death penalty with all the controversy and anti-death penalty too much time on their hands protesters amateur-investigating the case and whatnot, currently in this day and age, it is certain that they are guilty of the crime, which was heinous for them to be on death row. I work in an environment with a lot of ex-cons, etc. and in dealing with my jobs with CPS there are just many evil people out there and I approve of when they are sentenced to death. I think it would be worse to be married to a gyno or be a gyno and perform abortions. Don't want to open a can of worms, but this was my first thought when I read your question about a husband dealing death.

    My bf is a gyno and I do not think of him as a "death dealer".

    I don't condone giving birth per se, just for the sake of "not murdering babies". Bringing unwanted babies into the world, who will then be neglected (because they were unwanted in the first place), abused and probably sexually molested. And as a result of that, will probably end up uneducated and engaging in some sort of illegal activity b/c of neglect and abuse in childhood.

    What about aborting in case of rape?

    These are not cut-and-dry issues. I envy your black and white approach where you do not, cannot or will not see the nuances.

    reply to Iva
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    Ahem...

    $2,000,000 to execute someone.
    $500,000 to imprison for life.

    You do the math.

    (Finding sources. Gimme a minute.)

    reply to Alek
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    Dan wrote: Changing your answer after I responded. Don't confuse me like that, lover. You're jumping all over my use of the word dysfunctional. And that's cool, but here's what I'm trying to say, If you're in your twenties and you've spent your life raping women for sex, murdering people for the 27 bucks in their pocket, then we don't need you. Society will lose nothing in killing you except the energy coursing throughout your body needed to kill you. And while I think some states are a little liberal when it comes to their use of the death penality, I do think it's needed. And come on, man, Jeffery Dahmer? People like him deserve to be executed. (And, yes, he was, albeit informally).

    Yeah, sorry, I'm impossibly disoriented before my morning coffee. :)

    reply to Alek
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    It's okay, it's not exactly a figure most people know about. Keeping someone alive costing more than killing them is a reasonably logical assumption.

    Here are some interesting sources:

    Tennessee's Death Penalty: Cost and Consequences

    The Budgetary Repercussions of Capital Convictions

    The Costs of Processing Murder Cases in North Carolina

    Costs Incurred for Death Penalty Cases:
    A K-GOAL Audit of the Department of Corrections


    (Note: Commerce-savvy people: forgive me if these are biased, inappropriate sources---I know not how to spot said biases in Financial studies.)

    reply to Alek
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    Alek wrote: Ahem... $2,000,000 to execute someone. $500,000 to imprison for life. You do the math. (Finding sources. Gimme a minute.)

    Hell, I'll do it for the low, low price of a hundred grand.

    reply to Dan
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    Oh I don't know. That'd get rid of college loans, get me a nice, shiny new automobile...

    reply to Dan
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    Sugah wrote: Jenny, I disagree with you. You can't buy smart. I know plenty of people who had no money growing up and they are extremely smart and successful. Likewise, I know kids with every advantage who are just plain not smart...specific example: teenager (whom I know) with parents who are both MDs, lives in a mansion, drives a new beamer, but is the dumbest kid I've ever met. The only class she had a passing grade in was tennis. It pains me every time I have to read something she wrote. We are immigrants. My parents learned English when they came here but not enough to help me with my homework. While it is true I went to a private school, it wasn't until I'd been in a WORKING CLASS school for seven years. When I got to the private school, I was already smarter than most kids, 2nd in my class. Historically, I could give you many examples...but let's look closer at current figures: Oprah vs. W. Bush. Need I say more? Wait, let's through in Paris Hilton....

    Interesting. However, you provide exclusive examples when I was making an entirely different point. I was attempting to show that those of us fortunate enough to be granted opportunities to cultivate our intelligence should use that in intellectual debates such as these... not to throw around statements like "Fry em" when we are talking about human beings.

    The scope of my argument was intended to reach beyond the money or not issue, instead focusing on any type of "bought" smarts, which absolutely exist. Otherwise, there would be no schools! See my point now?

    reply to Jenny
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    I personally believe that the death penalty is an "easy out" for whoever they execute... if they did the crime, I think they should do the time, and live with what they did wrong...

    reply to Nikki
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    Nikki wrote: I personally believe that the death penalty is an "easy out" for whoever they execute... if they did the crime, I think they should do the time, and live with what they did wrong...

    Jail is just another way of life, one that you can get used to and learn to enjoy.

    reply to Dan
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    Dan wrote: Jail is just another way of life, one that you can get used to and learn to enjoy.

    perhaps you're right.. but is it right to go by "eye for an eye"?

    You killed someone, thats terrible, you're wrong for doing that, SO we're going to kill you...

    We are all obviously entitled to our own opinions, and I respect those of you who say that you believe in it, I just don't think that it solves anything...

    reply to Nikki
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    Jenny wrote: Ah! A catchy phrase... but horrifically untrue in this country. Look around you. There are millions of little kids right around the corner from you in neighborhoods whose schools have no funding. Many of these kids have bright little minds that could develop into strong intelligence some day, but probably won't. They can't buy smart. But we did. Or our parents bought it for us. Using our minds that have been furthered by good books, parents who had the time to nurture, and in many of our cases, college educations is to have purchased a fair amount of "smart." To use this extraordinary gift of a strong mind to spit out phrases like "Fry 'em!"... You call that smart. I certainly do not. P.S. Raven, I adore you. And I do not mean this as any sort of intellectual attack. You are a very smart woman and we all know that... but your phrasing in that first response really boiled my blood and I feel we all have a right to be honest here.

    I did use the phrase "Fry 'em" for shock value and as a Texan I thought it would be pretty funny to say that. I used the phrase tongue in cheek and it was meant to be over the top, while still conveying that I support the death penalty.

    reply to Raven
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    Cheryl wrote: Since when a human life is a matter of practicality? Have we become so numb?

    Most people have not become so numb and good for them! I am very jaded due to my profession. I have worked with crime victims, victims of childhood sexual abuse, physical torture, sex offenders, murderers, victims of child trafficking, sexual trafficking, those forced into prostitution, those who chose prostitution, victims and perpetrators of any type of crime/injustice imaginable. I used to believe that everyone is good at heart or has at least some good in them. I am no longer sheltered and living in a bubble. I have not become numb, but my perspective has been skewed due to all the depravity I've come across and tried to heal in my career. My eyes have been opened.

    reply to Raven
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    Iva wrote: My thoughts exactly on the "YES! fry 'em" comment. Define "them" in fry THEM. Them is us. Would Raven be so enthusiastic to fry her mother/brother/father/husband/ dear friend who did something illegal in affect, or in a fit of temporary insanity and later regretted it. Yes, it's tempting to jump and shout "but MY mother/father/brother/ husband/dear friends are perfect, they'd NEVER commit murder or any other heinous crime..." But, hypothetically speaking, if a person let's say, murdered your (hypothetical) brother's wife, and that person was not brought to justice. And in a fit of blind pain and rage, your brother kills her killer. Would you then be shouting "fry the bastard". Or would you while not condoning his deed, understand his motive. Or what about women who murder their husbands after suffering years of abuse?

    The type of crimes you mentioned would not warrant the death penalty, so it is a moot point. No one is on death row for killing the murderer of their spouse or an abusive spouse. Prisoners on death row have been convicted of repeated and/or especially heinous crimes. If a member of my family commits a crime, they should pay for it like anyone else.


    reply to Raven
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    Jenny wrote: Interesting. However, you provide exclusive examples when I was making an entirely different point. I was attempting to show that those of us fortunate enough to be granted opportunities to cultivate our intelligence should use that in intellectual debates such as these... not to throw around statements like "Fry em" when we are talking about human beings. The scope of my argument was intended to reach beyond the money or not issue, instead focusing on any type of "bought" smarts, which absolutely exist. Otherwise, there would be no schools! See my point now?

    I don't agree at all with the idea that smarts can be bought- or those that are smart should loose their sense of humor.

    Of course Raven didn't use the word "fry 'em" in a hateful way. I can see how some may have taken offense to that, but my god.. have we become so politically correct that we can't decipher what is meant in earnest?

    Also, I totally agree with Marlene about the buying smarts thing. You may have been coached and given every opportunity known to you- but there are millions of people who don't have that and still prevail in business and/or have the highest set of morals. Sometimes people learn what NOT to do by their upbringing.

    reply to Blondie
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    Iva wrote: My bf is a gyno and I do not think of him as a "death dealer". I don't condone giving birth per se, just for the sake of "not murdering babies". Bringing unwanted babies into the world, who will then be neglected (because they were unwanted in the first place), abused and probably sexually molested. And as a result of that, will probably end up uneducated and engaging in some sort of illegal activity b/c of neglect and abuse in childhood. What about aborting in case of rape? These are not cut-and-dry issues. I envy your black and white approach where you do not, cannot or will not see the nuances.

    I've never stated my opinion on the issue of abortion, so I'm not sure where you got the idea that I have a black and white approach to it.

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    Raven wrote: The type of crimes you mentioned would not warrant the death penalty, so it is a moot point. No one is on death row for killing the murderer of their spouse or an abusive spouse. Prisoners on death row have been convicted of repeated and/or especially heinous crimes. If a member of my family commits a crime, they should pay for it like anyone else.

    My point was "them" is us. Those heinous people are human just like we are. They are someone's mother, father, brother. Just b/c it's incomprehensible to us why they are so tormented, tortured and just plain evil, does not give "us" as a society the right to kill. We might as well return to witch hunts.

    Did you see that highly controversial Benetton ad with death row prisoners?





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    Raven wrote: I've never stated my opinion on the issue of abortion, so I'm not sure where you got the idea that I have a black and white approach to it.

    "I think it would be worse to be married to a gyno or be a gyno and perform abortions. Don't want to open a can of worms, but this was my first thought when I read your question about a husband dealing death."

    You wrote this. So that's where I got the idea. Apologies if misconstrued.

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    It is said that man is a social creature. Even the most evil individual/psychopath, studies show, has need for some, any kind of human contact.

    So maybe life in prison in solitary confinement. Being in prison in s.c. for the rest of your life seems much harder then death. The worst psycho monster, faced with solitary confinement will be forced to face their own demons and live with them day after tortured day. But, the punishment here is that they won't be able to "calm" their inner demons by killing/raping/ molesting children. All they have is themselves, their monstrosity, and four walls surrounding them. And perhaps a mirror so they can (self)reflect better. And that is a scary thought to those cowards - to be alone with their psycho thoughts and nobody to take it out on. IMHO, Death is just a form of release to those monsters.

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    Iva wrote: "I think it would be worse to be married to a gyno or be a gyno and perform abortions. Don't want to open a can of worms, but this was my first thought when I read your question about a husband dealing death." You wrote this. So that's where I got the idea. Apologies if misconstrued.

    No problem. I just meant that being in a relationship with someone who does abortions or doing abortions would be more emotionally tormenting to me than being in a relationship with an executioner or executing prisoners.

    As for the death row prisoners, I do have any idea of why they are the way they are. I counseled a man (back when he was a teen) who has since been convicted of serial rapes and a few murders and he could be on death row. It's devastating for many reasons, but I'm still a proponent of it.

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    Raven wrote: I did use the phrase "Fry 'em" for shock value and as a Texan I thought it would be pretty funny to say that. I used the phrase tongue in cheek and it was meant to be over the top, while still conveying that I support the death penalty.

    I just didn't think it was funny. This is a pretty serious issue... and it's people we're talking about.

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    Raven wrote: Most people have not become so numb and good for them! I am very jaded due to my profession. I have worked with crime victims, victims of childhood sexual abuse, physical torture, sex offenders, murderers, victims of child trafficking, sexual trafficking, those forced into prostitution, those who chose prostitution, victims and perpetrators of any type of crime/injustice imaginable. I used to believe that everyone is good at heart or has at least some good in them. I am no longer sheltered and living in a bubble. I have not become numb, but my perspective has been skewed due to all the depravity I've come across and tried to heal in my career. My eyes have been opened.

    I just wanted to quote this because I think it's awesome. I love how you basically say that if someone thinks everyone has some good in them, then they're sheltered and living in a bubble.

    Then you go on to infer that you know more about this because you're closer to it, that your say carries more weight than any of ours. Your eyes now being open, ours being closed.

    How does it feel, having a personality so incredibly abrasive? I swear, between this thread and parents/sex in house thread, I just see ugly.

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    Blondie wrote: I don't agree at all with the idea that smarts can be bought- or those that are smart should loose their sense of humor. Of course Raven didn't use the word "fry 'em" in a hateful way. I can see how some may have taken offense to that, but my god.. have we become so politically correct that we can't decipher what is meant in earnest? Also, I totally agree with Marlene about the buying smarts thing. You may have been coached and given every opportunity known to you- but there are millions of people who don't have that and still prevail in business and/or have the highest set of morals. Sometimes people learn what NOT to do by their upbringing.

    I stand firm in what I said and I will try to explain it further...

    By stating that you can buy smart, what I meant was that many of us (not all, unfortunately) are granted opportunities to gain more intellectual resources through education, reading, etc. The most naturally intelligent person on earth, if not given the resources to cultivate that mind, and to be exposed to new things, concepts, and perspectives, through schooling and other resources, would not be the smartest person.

    We all as the lucky ones who have been granted an education, access to reading materials, intellectual friends and family members, etc. have the responsibility to use these gifts responsibly. And no, they are not literally being purchased in some cases. But in others they are-- or college wouldn't cost what it does!

    I am fairly certain that you very brilliant people, whether you agree with me or not, can at least understand what I'm getting at.

    Furthermore, Blondie, I understand why my reaction might seem stuffy and lacking in humor, but there are certain lines each of us draw internally that just don't allow for mockery. Most of us would probably agree that Holocaust jokes aren't funny, many would be offended by a racist joke, etc. For me, the death penalty is a very serious and scary issue and I just don't see what's funny about it.

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    Dan wrote: I just wanted to quote this because I think it's awesome. I love how you basically say that if someone thinks everyone has some good in them, then they're sheltered and living in a bubble. Then you go on to infer that you know more about this because you're closer to it, that your say carries more weight than any of ours. Your eyes now being open, ours being closed. How does it feel, having a personality so incredibly abrasive? I swear, between this thread and parents/sex in house thread, I just see ugly.

    I'm sorry you feel that way.

    I did not "basically say" or "infer" that anyone who thinks everyone has good in them is sheltered or living in a bubble, that I know more about it than others, that my say carries any more weight, or that others' eyes are closed. You inferred that.

    I said what is written. I was speaking for myself. You inferred all that other stuff that you wrote.

    I respect everyone's opinions and they have equal value to mine and I've stated that so many times it's becoming tiresome.

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    Raven wrote: The sex as a teen in your parents home is a matter of taste. The death penalty is a matter of practicality.

    I guess I'm just practically tasteless b/c I'm completely for having sex in my parents house without their consent, and I'm not for the death penalty.

    I'd rather have the criminal think about what he did everyday for the rest of their lives and that's why their in jail, than letting them die. I think dying is the easy way out. Besides, the law isn't foolproof.


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    Raven wrote: I'm sorry you feel that way. I did not "basically say" or "infer" that anyone who thinks everyone has good in them is sheltered or living in a bubble, that I know more about it than others, that my say carries any more weight, or that others' eyes are closed. You inferred that. I said what is written. I was speaking for myself. You inferred all that other stuff that you wrote. I respect everyone's opinions and they have equal value to mine and I've stated that so many times it's becoming tiresome.

    Man, Raven, I'm so sorry! That must completely suck, being misconstrued by so many people today! How misunderstood you are! I mean, all of these people being so incredibly offended by you today, they're all
    Fucking
    Wrong.

    Again, I apologize.
    You keep being that great person you are.

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    Dan wrote: Man, Raven, I'm so sorry! That must completely suck, being misconstrued by so many people today! How misunderstood you are! I mean, all of these people being so incredibly offended by you today, they're all Fucking Wrong. Again, I apologize. You keep being that great person you are.

    Thanks Dan! I appreciate your apology! And I will continue to be a great person!

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    Raven wrote: Thanks Dan! I appreciate your apology! And I will continue to be a great person!

    Sweet!

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    Might I add that despite the offense I took to Miss Raven's earlier comment, I think she is wittier and prettier than most living souls... and I am really sorry if what I said felt in any way like an attack.

    Raven, I think you are chicer than chic, and certainly hold your advice on most issues (even when we disagree) to be some of the most sincere, open, and intelligent stuff on this site. Keep it up, you saucy Texan! You're fabulous.

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    Dan wrote: Man, Raven, I'm so sorry! That must completely suck, being misconstrued by so many people today! How misunderstood you are! I mean, all of these people being so incredibly offended by you today, they're all Fucking Wrong. Again, I apologize. You keep being that great person you are.

    I was never offended by anything Miss Raven said and never misunderstood anything she said. Just FYI..

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    Jenny wrote: Might I add that despite the offense I took to Miss Raven's earlier comment, I think she is wittier and prettier than most living souls... and I am really sorry if what I said felt in any way like an attack. Raven, I think you are chicer than chic, and certainly hold your advice on most issues (even when we disagree) to be some of the most sincere, open, and intelligent stuff on this site. Keep it up, you saucy Texan! You're fabulous.

    Thank you Jenny. I was glib about a very touchy subject and my "fry 'em" comment was tasteless. (to use a word that's been thrown around today by me and others)

    I never felt attacked by you. I was very happy to see your PS and you are absolutely right that we should all be honest on AV. I'm glad you expressed yourself. It made me check myself in regards to my glib comment and remind myself that tone is not very well expressed on the internet.

    I appreciate and look forward to your advice and you are one of the most well-rounded, whole package, she's got a lot going for her gal's I have come across.

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    Reading this thread has been very interesting... obviously this is something that people find difficult to talk about, and can get very defensive...

    I am glad to hear that (well... for the most part) we respect each others opinions...

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    John wrote: Easy question! I'm 100% against the death penalty. If only everyone would take the time to mull over the OVERWHELMING evidence of the American penal system's racist, classist, and all-around inept ways, we wouldn't have such a barbaric code on the books. In fact, the American Bar Association just advised enacting a moratorium on all executions after a three year study of their's found how jacked the system is (see above). Among their findings: clemency review is a joke, minorities are disproportionately punished, tampering in crime laboratories is out of control, and juries are (for the most part) poorly informed.

    I agree. I am completely one hundred percent against it. I can understand on an emotional level why people support it, but you need to think about the racism and classism at work in our justice system. Do some reading about the prison industrial complex and it will totally shock you....getting as much info on any hot button issue is a good idea.

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    Alek wrote: No. When a person is executed, their blood is on ALL our hands. Each and every one of us are murderers.

    but when they rot for decades on death row, the TAXES are on all of our hands.

    remember, you have to pay to keep people fed, clothed, and sheltered in prisons.

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    I'm strongly against the death penalty, and in fact have devoted some of my political life to fighting it.

    Julia, I am also opposed to many other aspects of the way we run and fund our prison system in this country, and think many reforms are required on all levels.


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    Raven, I'm intrigued that you hold the opinion you do, when I know from other posts of yours that racism is a huge concern for you--you said once that you thought it trumped sexism.

    Due to racism, we keep "frying" people who didn't commit the crimes they were convicted of. In this country, we toss Latino men into prison for years for smoking a joint or shoplifting some lunchmeat.



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    Lucia wrote: Raven, I'm intrigued that you hold the opinion you do, when I know from other posts of yours that racism is a huge concern for you--you said once that you thought it trumped sexism. Due to racism, we keep "frying" people who didn't commit the crimes they were convicted of. In this country, we toss Latino men into prison for years for smoking a joint or shoplifting some lunchmeat.

    This is still in line with my views. I don't like criminals, regardless of the color of their skin. What this means is that if I had my druthers, a lot more whites would get the death penalty.

    I don't know of anyone who has been put to death by the criminal justice system who was innocent. With all the appeals and the decades long legal battles, all the criminal advocates protesting, etc., this would very rarely happen. Latino men, black men, white men, women of any color, should be thrown in jail for smoking a joint or shoplifting lunchmeat. It's illegal.

    I know there is a problem with the institutionalized rascism-- the fact that 1 in 9 Black men under the age of thirty are in the criminal justice system speaks for itself. This is a problem. But the problem is not that they didn't commit the crimes. The problem is that there are not more white criminals in there with them.

    My motto in regards to this is: "Don't start nothing, won't be nothing."

    Meaning, don't commit a crime, don't live a lifestyle where you are likely to catch a case, catch a charge, and you won't have to worry about it.

    reply to Raven
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    Raven wrote: This is still in line with my views. I don't like criminals, regardless of the color of their skin. What this means is that if I had my druthers, a lot more whites would get the death penalty. I don't know of anyone who has been put to death by the criminal justice system who was innocent. With all the appeals and the decades long legal battles, all the criminal advocates protesting, etc., this would very rarely happen. Latino men, black men, white men, women of any color, should be thrown in jail for smoking a joint or shoplifting lunchmeat. It's illegal. I know there is a problem with the institutionalized rascism-- the fact that 1 in 9 Black men under the age of thirty are in the criminal justice system speaks for itself. This is a problem. But the problem is not that they didn't commit the crimes. The problem is that there are not more white criminals in there with them. My motto in regards to this is: "Don't start nothing, won't be nothing." Meaning, don't commit a crime, don't live a lifestyle where you are likely to catch a case, catch a charge, and you won't have to worry about it.

    Raven, I used to feel the same way as you. I burst out laughing when I read "Fry 'em!" because even if it's not PC, I have a sense of humor about these things.

    But, I'd also like to share some facts with you that made me change my mind about the death penalty.

    Segregation used to be a law. Slavery used to be a law. Gay marriages are still against the law in some places, but not others. In some countries it is still illegal to even be homosexual. If we didn't have people who broke the laws, society would never progress.

    I do agree with you strongly that there are people on Earth who deserve to die. But I'm not a perfect human being either, so I don't believe it's my right to decide the life of another human being. Why not put them in jail and think about what they did.

    And, if you want some cold, hard, financial facts as to why eliminating the death penalty would save money, check out this Death Penalty Fact Sheet, I found it to be quite informative.

    reply to Whistlebait
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    I've done all the research there is to be done on this subject and my opinion is formed. It's not going to change unless I end up on death row for a crime I did not commit.

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    In which case, all you bleeding hearts better show up at the jail house to save my ass!!! I'm gonna hold you to it!

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    Raven wrote: In which case, all you bleeding hearts better show up at the jail house to save my ass!!! I'm gonna hold you to it!

    Duh, I'll be in the front row :)

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    Whistlebait wrote: Duh, I'll be in the front row :)

    Now that comment is enough to melt my hardened heart! Thanks!

    reply to Raven
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    Raven, have you never committed ANY crime?

    If you have, you already belong in the slammer by your logic.

    You never had one sip of alcohol in the United States when you were under-21, for example?

    There are many crimes for which a range of punishments, from a warning to a fine and community service to jail time, is acceptable. Little rich kids get a slap on the wrist for smoking a joint, while disadvantaged teens get put in the prison system, which actually makes them MORE, not less, likely to commit more severe crimes in the future, according to some studies.

    I'm always sad and sorry when someone thinks they've done "all the research there is to be done" on a subject. It doesn't bug me that you believe your mind is made up and you're determined to be unswayed by new or richer information--I feel the same, I'll probably always think people who want to kill other human beings are sickos--but the likelihood that you've really read comprehensively through the key legal and sociological literature on this subject is low. I took three classes that dealt with this subject in grad school, plus auditing one at a law school, and worked with a professor who's an international expert on the subject...I've read very widely on it (research and arguments on multiple sides of the debate) and I would NEVER say I'd done "all the research there is to be done."

    Reading and learning on these issues is a lifelong thing, especially when our prison system has seen so many changes over the past few decades.

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    Raven wrote: I've done all the research there is to be done on this subject and my opinion is formed. It's not going to change unless I end up on death row for a crime I did not commit.

    In which case, with all the appeals and the decades long legal battles, all the criminal advocates protesting, etc., you would only lose, say, 20 years of your life. Give or take.

    :)

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    No, I don't. To me its cruel and inaccurate to leave it up to the judicial system, simply because I don't trust it, just like Jenny said.
    Money hungry lawyers, corrupt bribe ridden judges, and cops who blame to simply close a case, have been tweaking and twisting the law for their own benefit, many a times blaming innocents.

    Now give me a perverted sadistic schmuck who hurts one of my loved ones, and I'd pop a cap in his ass myself.

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    lalalalala! lalalalal!

    now these...

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    beautiful line. and were out of beta we're releasing on time...

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    Maybe we should sentence people to a lifetime of silence.

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    Then maybe rather than hearing the voices in their head, they'd hear more of their own voice.

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    I heard a priest give a sermon years ago and he said you cannot be pro-life and be for the death penalty. That really stuck in my mind because I've been a catholic my whole life and could never have an abortion myself - but don't think I have the right to tell someone else they can't have one. If God considers it a sin, then the sin is on them, I cannot be their conscience.

    As for capital punishment, the ideas I cannot erase from my brain are those of OJ and what he did to his beautiful wife and her friend (and he'll never be held responsible for that) and Scott Peterson, murdering his pregnant wife.

    In my mind, there has to be more punishment for these crimes than just life imprisonment.

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    ehvwon wrote: I heard a priest give a sermon years ago and he said you cannot be pro-life and be for the death penalty. That really stuck in my mind because I've been a catholic my whole life and could never have an abortion myself - but don't think I have the right to tell someone else they can't have one. If God considers it a sin, then the sin is on them, I cannot be their conscience. As for capital punishment, the ideas I cannot erase from my brain are those of OJ and what he did to his beautiful wife and her friend (and he'll never be held responsible for that) and Scott Peterson, murdering his pregnant wife. In my mind, there has to be more punishment for these crimes than just life imprisonment.

    Some strong points, but I believe that we need to focus more on prevention than punishment. When we murder people in a heinous way, we become just as bad as the murderers we want to punish. By that I mean that we harm ourselves spiritually, ethically and psychologically. Most civilized nations no longer use the death penalty, partly because the justice system is faulty and people get executed for crimes they did not commit, but also because the death penalty does not deter murderers.

    The rates of domestic violence in this country are scarily high, and the justice system often sees it as a "private matter" or turns a blind eye when women (like Nicole Brown Simpson) are battered. ALSO, most murderers were abusing alcohol, illegal drugs and prescription drugs at the time they committed the murders. Most were victims of domestic violence as children. And most have already been in the prison system--far from acting as a deterrent, it exposes them to still morte sickening, senseless and merciless violence. I don't bring these things up to say we should feel sympathy for murderers--far from it, lots of people who were brutally beaten as children do not grow up to harm or kill others--but to note that if we want to protect people from crime, we need to intervene before the killings.

    Re: abortion. I am strongly pro-choice but, like you, AV1, I would not have an abortion myself. I'm not catholic and don't believe in "sin"...and I also, conveniently, do not believe that using birth control or a guy jerking off and "spilling his seed" is taking a human life...but I do actually think that aborting a fetus with a partly developed brain is killing, and that it feels like killing in a woman's system. I will ALWAYS be pro-choice, but with this issue, too, I think we should focus on prevention--teaching people to have safer sex. For teens, masturbating each other is a great choice for pregnancy and STD prevention. But I'm going waaayyy off on a tangent.

    I think killing others, or even wanting to, transforms US in sick ways. Instead of looking for more punishment, I want to look for more prevention, to stop the vicious cycles of violence that lead only to more violence.

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    I am pro-choice. I wouldn't want abortion to be illegal. Then women would be forced to take desperate measures and I am definitely pro-woman.

    I don't want to kill others; I wouldn't want to witness an execution, I'm not blood thirsty. But for heinous crimes like the murder and rape of children, the murder of women who are pregnant, etc., life in prison or on death row is like a vacation compared to what the victim - and the victim's loved ones - face for the rest of their lives.

    See, I'm not high on crack all of the time, I can make sense now and again.

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    Maggie wrote: Maybe we should sentence people to a lifetime of silence.

    How would we enforce that?

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    Most of them may have nothing left to live for. That wouldn't work.

    A lifetime rotting in solitary confinement, however, seems a suitable punishment to me.

    reply to Alek
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    Alek wrote: Most of them may have nothing left to live for. That wouldn't work. A lifetime rotting in solitary confinement, however, seems a suitable punishment to me.

    welcome back!

    reply to Julia
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    Lucia wrote: Raven, have you never committed ANY crime? If you have, you already belong in the slammer by your logic. You never had one sip of alcohol in the United States when you were under-21, for example? There are many crimes for which a range of punishments, from a warning to a fine and community service to jail time, is acceptable. Little rich kids get a slap on the wrist for smoking a joint, while disadvantaged teens get put in the prison system, which actually makes them MORE, not less, likely to commit more severe crimes in the future, according to some studies. I'm always sad and sorry when someone thinks they've done "all the research there is to be done" on a subject. It doesn't bug me that you believe your mind is made up and you're determined to be unswayed by new or richer information--I feel the same, I'll probably always think people who want to kill other human beings are sickos--but the likelihood that you've really read comprehensively through the key legal and sociological literature on this subject is low. I took three classes that dealt with this subject in grad school, plus auditing one at a law school, and worked with a professor who's an international expert on the subject...I've read very widely on it (research and arguments on multiple sides of the debate) and I would NEVER say I'd done "all the research there is to be done." Reading and learning on these issues is a lifelong thing, especially when our prison system has seen so many changes over the past few decades.

    I just saw this response. Why would you assume that I have not done extensive sociological and legal research on this issue?

    You stated, "...but the likelihood that you've really read comprehensively through the key legal and sociological literature on this subject is low."

    Why would you assume such a thing? Just because my opinion is different than yours?

    I have done extensive, but not exhaustive, research on this subject. I had some (limited) involvement in a documentary on the issue and of course have studied the issue in an academic setting. I have also done reading and research just for the hell of it because it is such a fascinating sociological and legal subject. Two teenage girls I knew were murdered brutally in Houston by a gang of young men, so my opinion has also been influenced by that tragedy.

    When I said I had done all the research to be done... I meant I've seen all the arguments for and against the death penalty. I thought that was clear and that no one would assume that I had a magical power that would enable me to access every piece of information ever produced about the subject.

    I respect your opinion and your formal and informal education on the subject. I'm not asking for you to respect my opinion, but please don't make the mistake of assuming that I am not as highly educated on the subject as you.

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    It would bother me just as much if my former colleague who has both a J.D. AND a PhD, has published several books and countless articles on this subject, has done over fifteen years of original research on it and agrees with ME said he had "done all the research to be done." While I agree with his opinion and respect his intellect and scholarship more than I could say, I would find that comment offensive from anyone..

    It's not that I think you're claiming to have read every random article in existence about this debate...It's that it bothers me greatly when anyone equates having formed an opinion with having "done all the research to be done" or says that they have "seen all the arguments" in an area of rich scholarship.

    Even after forming an opinion, it's essential to think, read and research freshly on issues of this magnitude--not necessarily to change our opinions, but to broaden and deepen our understanding.

    Again, "Reading and learning on these issues is a lifelong thing, especially when our prison system has seen so many changes over the past few decades."

    I'm not comparing our education levels on this subject, but rather saying that ANYONE making the claim you made would be inaccurate, even the foremost experts on this issue.



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    Very interesting...I think that all depends on the crime an individual commits. Serial murderers, rapists, child molesters---fry 'em!

    Although this does bring me to another point---About rehabilitation v.s. punishment with petty criminals, for which I will create a new post :)

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    Hmmmm. An interesting thread indeed.

    Death itself is skewered by perspective.

    Man kills a man - that's murder.
    State kills the man that killed the man - state sanctioned murder to some, justice to others.
    Someone kills a policeman - that's a tragedy.
    Find out that the cop was a child molester - that's Kharma.
    A soldier kills someone in combat - he's a hero to someone, a murderer to someone else.
    Someone blows up a bus - he's someone's terrorist, another person's freedom fighter.

    People good and bad kill people, for most the trauma haunts them for the rest of their lives.

    Do I believe in the death penalty? I'd like to say no, but the truth is - if anyone was to hurt my family - I admit, I might do what the laws in Australia can't.

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    Raven wrote: In which case, all you bleeding hearts better show up at the jail house to save my ass!!! I'm gonna hold you to it!

    Haha, I am also from a Southern state I couldn't agree more. Fry 'em!

    I'm for the death penalty because while it may not deter crime, it lets me sleep better at night to know that some people actually pay for their crimes. An eye for an eye is as old as time, there must be a reason for that.

    I can see both sides of the issue, however. I am not an advocate of capital punishment without completely solid evidence, as in DNA.

    But I'm with Raven, yall better keep me out of the chair if I didn't do it!

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    I'll be in the front row supporting Raven, right beside Whistlebait. I'm for the death penalty.

    reply to Sally G.
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    I am not for the death penalty murder is murder. Two wrongs don't make a right.

    reply to jessica
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    NO...I feel the death penalty is wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right (sorry about the stupid clique)...Plus, those death row inmates get cable damn it...sometimes I can't afford my own cable and don't even get me started about their "last meaL"...I want a last meal consisting of sashimi; heaps and heaps of sashimi and sake...maybe I'll commit a crime to get my favorite meal...seems reasonable.

    I do not however, have a problem with sex offenders being executed but usually other prison inmates do that task.

    reply to Kimberly
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    Kimberly wrote: NO...I feel the death penalty is wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right (sorry about the stupid clique)...Plus, those death row inmates get cable damn it...sometimes I can't afford my own cable and don't even get me started about their "last meaL"...I want a last meal consisting of sashimi; heaps and heaps of sashimi and sake...maybe I'll commit a crime to get my favorite meal...seems reasonable. I do not however, have a problem with sex offenders being executed but usually other prison inmates do that task.

    How can you say execution is wrong, then backpedal and say it's ok to kill sex offenders?

    And then you mention that other inmates take care of killing them so it's ok.

    You're saying let the criminals deal out social justice that the law can't and you think that because it happens that way there's no blood on your hands so it's ok.

    You don't think the death penalty is wrong, you just don't want to be a part of the due process that enforces it.

    reply to Juliet
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