Ask E. Jean - Tormented? Driven Witless? Whipsawed by confusion?

Advice Vixens

Hi, everyone, I have been fascinated by the various philosophical discussions at Advice Vixens and finally got around to joining.

I am a Baptist and come from a very religious family and would be like a willow in the wind without my faith.

So I have a question for you: Do you believe in God?

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    Do you want to expand on that a little? Why don't you Gerri?

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    I am a humanist. Humanism is a progressive philosophy of life that, without supernaturalism, affirms our ability and responsibility to lead ethical lives of personal fulfillment that aspire to the greater good of humanity.

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    I do not because he is not.

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    I do not believe in the old, white-guy, paternalistic notion of God that so many mainstream Christians seem to favor.

    I absolutely do believe that we are more than flesh and blood, and that there is a guided pattern to life, the way every story has a spine.

    I kind of suspect that "God" is just the sum total of all of our stories put together, taking on a direction and momentum of its own, the way all good stories do.

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    I believe in St. Thomas Aquainas' theory on God.

    I like Futurama's take on it too.

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    I would like to believe in some kind of "higher power". the thought of humans being the top "being" frightens me, considering how unevolved we are in some ways.

    i don't believe in the god i was taught to believe in by Catholicism. I don't believe in heaven and hell, I believe we transfer our energy when we die. but i still pray....go figure

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    If you don't believe in God, then how did we get here?

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    Rachel wrote: If you don't believe in God, then how did we get here?

    Have you read St. Thomas Aquainas' proof of God?
    It is fascinating!

    Everyone should read it.

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    Rachel wrote: If you don't believe in God, then how did we get here?

    E. Jean marketed the shit out of this site in ELLE for a while. She also ran an internship program, which is how I arrived here. Google, in all its divine Power and Wisdom, probably helped some folk too.

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    Rachel wrote: If you don't believe in God, then how did we get here?

    evolution darling :)

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    Alek wrote: E. Jean marketed the shit out of this site in ELLE for a while. She also ran an internship program, which is how I arrived here. Google, in all its divine Power and Wisdom, probably helped some folk too.

    You are God? That would explain a lot but differs from what I was taught. Seriously how can you say with certainty that there isn't a God?

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    Rachel wrote: You are God? That would explain a lot but differs from what I was taught. Seriously how can you say with certainty that there isn't a God?

    We are two sides of the same coin.

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    I believe that God and change are the exact same thing ... and I'm not talking about coins.

    It doesn't bother me one iota that Alek and Gerri don't believe in God. It generally doesn't bother me when others don't believe in God. I don't even care if they are pagan or Satanist.

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    Rachel wrote: You are God? That would explain a lot but differs from what I was taught. Seriously how can you say with certainty that there isn't a God?

    we can't because there is no proof either way, that's what faith is. but science is proven and has data to back it up

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    Andrew Hunt wrote: Have you read St. Thomas Aquainas' proof of God? It is fascinating! Everyone should read it.

    Aren't his early teachings a big part of Catholicism?

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    Lady Sauce wrote: evolution darling :)

    I agree.

    Beyond that, I honestly don't believe anyone knows where everything came from, and I find people who insist that they do know to be a little childish.

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    Don't you worry about your soul when you die?

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    Rachel wrote: You are God? That would explain a lot but differs from what I was taught. Seriously how can you say with certainty that there isn't a God?

    The exact same way that you can say with certainty that there is.

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    Lady Sauce wrote: we can't because there is no proof either way, that's what faith is. but science is proven and has data to back it up

    It's unwise to speak in such definitive terms. Science is so great because it embraces error, falsehoods and mistakes. Evolution is a theory--and a very, very strong one at that.

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    Rachel wrote: Don't you worry about your soul when you die?

    No. If I have a soul, it will know what to do and where to go when the time comes.

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    Rachel wrote: Don't you worry about your soul when you die?

    Yes. I worry there won't be ample room for its feet in Hell's lovely magma tubs.

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    Rachel wrote: Aren't his early teachings a big part of Catholicism?

    Yeah.
    But his proof of God is not a proof of an afterlife. Nor is it proof of a human being that created the world.

    But it is proof that there had to be an initial 'mover' that started everything.
    And he counts that 'mover' as God.

    Look it up, everyone.
    Library style.

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    Rachel wrote: Don't you worry about your soul when you die?

    I'm just terrified that I'll become a vampire and end up immortal.

    I like that I have a finite amount of time to have fun as a human being.

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    Alek wrote: It's unwise to speak in such definitive terms. Science is so great because it embraces error, falsehoods and mistakes. Evolution is a theory--and a very, very strong one at that.

    yes, it embraces mistakes etc,. but there is still data to prove theories. i believe evolution is more than a theory

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    Maggie wrote: I believe that God and change are the exact same thing ... and I'm not talking about coins. It doesn't bother me one iota that Alek and Gerri don't believe in God. It generally doesn't bother me when others don't believe in God. I don't even care if they are pagan or Satanist.

    Maggie, I would love to sit down with you over drinks and explore what you just said here. I don't immediately understand how "God" and "change" are the same, but the idea really calls to me. I got chills.

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    Rachel wrote: Don't you worry about your soul when you die?

    you're soul is energy, it will transfer forms

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    Alek wrote: Yes. I worry there won't be ample room for its feet in Hell's lovely magma tubs.

    I'll move over and make room for you.

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    Where does a soul's energy or movement come from if not from God?

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    Rachel wrote: Where does a soul's energy or movement come from if not from God?

    the universe. the universe is made up of energy. what is god to you?

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    Lady Sauce wrote: the universe. the universe is made up of energy. what is god to you?

    God is all encompassing to me, the Creator, the Teacher, the source of all Wisdom.

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    Rachel wrote: God is all encompassing to me, the Creator, the Teacher, the source of all Wisdom.

    but what "form" is that (creator, teacher, source)? do you think it's a person?

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    Robynne wrote: Maggie, I would love to sit down with you over drinks and explore what you just said here. I don't immediately understand how "God" and "change" are the same, but the idea really calls to me. I got chills.

    Dude. The thought of getting on a plane (and getting stuck in another airport for 27 hrs) makes me want to cry.

    But I would lovelovelove to meet you. Esp. b/c I love AZ.

    Give me a little while to recover and mebbe we can figure something out :o)

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    Rachel wrote: Where does a soul's energy or movement come from if not from God?

    Energy can neither be created not destroyed. If we have souls, their movement comes from the same place that all energy came from -- the start of the universe.

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    Maggie wrote: Dude. The thought of getting on a plane (and getting stuck in another airport for 27 hrs) makes me want to cry. But I would lovelovelove to meet you. Esp. b/c I love AZ. Give me a little while to recover and mebbe we can figure something out :o)

    I can also come to you. <3

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    Lady Sauce wrote: but what "form" is that (creator, teacher, source)? do you think it's a person?

    I don't think of God the Father in human form, but I believe Jesus walked among us.

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    Rachel wrote: I don't think of God the Father in human form, but I believe Jesus walked among us.

    I believe that, too, though I do not believe that he was any more or less divine than anyone else. That part of the story was made up by other people.

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    Humanists affirm the dignity of every human being and assert that humanity is responsible for its own destiny, having within itself all that is needed to improve the conditions of life.

    Humanists see reason and science as the best tools for the discovery of knowledge and the achievement of goals.

    43 million Americans identify as nonreligious.

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    Rachel wrote: I don't think of God the Father in human form, but I believe Jesus walked among us.

    but do you believe god was Jesus's father?

    I believe there was Jesus, I believe historically that has been proven, but what does the son of god really mean ?

    the jews don't belive he was the son of god

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    Gerri wrote: Humanists affirm the dignity of every human being and assert that humanity is responsible for its own destiny, having within itself all that is needed to improve the conditions of life. Humanists see reason and science as the best tools for the discovery of knowledge and the achievement of goals. 43 million Americans identify as nonreligious.

    i can dig on that

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    Robynne wrote: I can also come to you. <3

    You (and any other Vixen) is MORE than welcome in Austin!

    Hey, where's Marianna??? She should move here. We're pretty chill here :o)

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    Lady Sauce wrote: but do you believe god was Jesus's father? I believe there was Jesus, I believe historically that has been proven, but what does the son of god really mean ? the jews don't belive he was the son of god

    Yes I believe in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as being the Trinity, all divine.

    I have not been educated in Judaism but I thought the Jews believed Jesus was a prophet.

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    Rachel wrote: Yes I believe in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as being the Trinity, all divine. I have not been educated in Judaism but I thought the Jews believed Jesus was a prophet.

    okay, see the whole "trinity" thing i don't get...and i never did. what's a holy spirit?

    and yes, the Jews believe jesus was a prophet, which is cool. i don't know why other religions have to claim him as the "son of god" . makes no sense

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    Jesus was sent to earth to live among us and die for our sins.

    It's cool if you don't believe. I'm not judging anyone on their faith or lack of faith or anything, just wanted to discuss it.

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    Lady Sauce wrote: okay, see the whole "trinity" thing i don't get...and i never did. what's a holy spirit? and yes, the Jews believe jesus was a prophet, which is cool. i don't know why other religions have to claim him as the "son of god" . makes no sense

    That was done by the Catholic Church to insert themselves between the common man and God. That was the only way they could control the people. They actually debated and voted on it.

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    Rachel wrote: Jesus was sent to earth to live among us and die for our sins. It's cool if you don't believe. I'm not judging anyone on their faith or lack of faith or anything, just wanted to discuss it.

    Well, no. You believe that "Jesus was sent to earth to live among us and die for our sins."

    I'm glad that you are not judging what other people believe, but claiming that something "is" one way or the other implies that your view is the only true one.

    Do you see what I'm saying?


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    Rachel wrote: Jesus was sent to earth to live among us and die for our sins. It's cool if you don't believe. I'm not judging anyone on their faith or lack of faith or anything, just wanted to discuss it.

    same here...i love religious discussions because being raised catholic there is so much i don't believe. so i find it facinating when someone really DOES believe.

    but can i ask you this? if jesus died for our sins, what exactly does that mean? what did his dying for our sins do? because if he died for our sins, then why would there be a need for heaven and hell?

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    Lady Sauce wrote: same here...i love religious discussions because being raised catholic there is so much i don't believe. so i find it facinating when someone really DOES believe. but can i ask you this? if jesus died for our sins, what exactly does that mean? what did his dying for our sins do? because if he died for our sins, then why would there be a need for heaven and hell?

    I'm pretty sure only certain sects (?) of Christianity believe in heaven and hell.

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    Robynne wrote: Well, no. You believe that "Jesus was sent to earth to live among us and die for our sins." I'm glad that you are not judging what other people believe, but claiming that something "is" one way or the other implies that your view is the only true one. Do you see what I'm saying?

    No I don't. I am sharing what I believe in and answering the questions that have been asked of me. You have your beliefs and I have mine.

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    Lady Sauce wrote: same here...i love religious discussions because being raised catholic there is so much i don't believe. so i find it facinating when someone really DOES believe. but can i ask you this? if jesus died for our sins, what exactly does that mean? what did his dying for our sins do? because if he died for our sins, then why would there be a need for heaven and hell?

    I never understood that, either. And if he died for our sins, how come people have to be baptized to wash away original sin? Even as a story, that never made sense to me.

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    Lady Sauce wrote: same here...i love religious discussions because being raised catholic there is so much i don't believe. so i find it facinating when someone really DOES believe. but can i ask you this? if jesus died for our sins, what exactly does that mean? what did his dying for our sins do? because if he died for our sins, then why would there be a need for heaven and hell?

    I have been taught that Jesus died for our sins to save us from original sin and give us eternal life with him in Heaven.

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    I don't believe in God and I certainly don't believe in organized religion. However I do believe that there is something out there, I just don't claim to know what it is.

    I have the utmost respect for those who have religions beliefs as long as they don't try to force them on others. I think we are all entitled to believe what we choose.

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    Rachel wrote: No I don't. I am sharing what I believe in and answering the questions that have been asked of me. You have your beliefs and I have mine.

    What I am saying is that your beliefs are your own and I respect that. But they are not "facts".

    Saying "Jesus died for your sins and it's okay if you don't believe that" is not stating your beliefs and respecting the beliefs of others.

    It is stating what you believe as though it were a fact and excusing other people for not knowing the truth as you do.

    Do you see the difference?

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    Rachel wrote: I have been taught that Jesus died for our sins to save us from original sin and give us eternal life with him in Heaven.

    and what exactly is original sin? how does a baby have a sin on it's soul? how is that possible and what is it's soul?

    and what exactly is "eternal life" in heaven?

    btw, these were questions i asked myself as i questioned what i was taught....and i didn't come up with satisfactory answers

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    Carly wrote: I don't believe in God and I certainly don't believe in organized religion. However I do believe that there is something out there, I just don't claim to know what it is. I have the utmost respect for those who have religions beliefs as long as they don't try to force them on others. I think we are all entitled to believe what we choose.

    Well said, Minxly!

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    Rachel wrote: I have been taught that Jesus died for our sins to save us from original sin and give us eternal life with him in Heaven.

    That's the part I don't understand, either. Why, then, do people have to be baptized?

    And don't other, grown-up sins cancel out being baptized?

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    I don't believe in God.

    Other than that, I am a little confused since I thought that original sin and the trinity were Catholic ideas along with Limbo, which I don't think they have anymore.

    EDIT

    And the Holy Spirit is the third part of the trinity, the spirit of God, the part that is supposed to "move" people to act.

    And original sin is only the sin of Adam and Eve when they disobeyed God in the Garden of Eden by eating of the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil

    Jesus' sacrifice only works if you accept it and are saved, and go on to live a Christian life which in this day and age (as every other) doesn't often mean much.



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    People are baptized, at least in my experience in a former life of Catholicism, because we are born with original sin.

    While I am not a practicing Catholic and have endless issues with the travesty that has become of the Church, I do still believe in God and Jesus.

    BTW, I am saying these are MY beliefs, not fact, so no one needs to get in an uproar.

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    If there is a God-----------why do little children get leukemia?

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    Gerri wrote: If there is a God-----------why do little children get leukemia?

    I have never understood this sort of argument against God. It's as if people who state this are saying, "If there was a god, no horrors would occur." Why do we think that?

    I forgot my charger and my battery is really low, so I may not get to participate much more in this thread, but know that I am curious about what evolves here :o)

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    Josephine wrote: I don't believe in God. Other than that, I am a little confused since I thought that original sin and the trinity were Catholic ideas along with Limbo, which I don't think they have anymore. EDIT And the Holy Spirit is the third part of the trinity, the spirit of God, the part that is supposed to "move" people to act. And original sin is only the sin of Adam and Eve when they disobeyed God in the Garden of Eden by eating of the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil Jesus' sacrifice only works if you accept it and are saved, and go on to live a Christian life which in this day and age (as every other) doesn't often mean much.


    Some other Christian sects also believe in the Trinity. Muslims, Christian Scientists and Jehovah's Witnesses don't, but some Protestants do.

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    Gerri wrote: If there is a God-----------why do little children get leukemia?

    yeah, i always thought , why would god let things get so shitty here? because of "free will" ? why the hell would he give us that? and wouldn't a supreme being be able to create something less fucked up than humans? if god is all knowing, wouldn't he know we'd fuck it all up??

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    ehvwon wrote: People are baptized, at least in my experience in a former life of Catholicism, because we are born with original sin. While I am not a practicing Catholic and have endless issues with the travesty that has become of the Church, I do still believe in God and Jesus. BTW, I am saying these are MY beliefs, not fact, so no one needs to get in an uproar.

    Nobody is getting in an uproar. I was raised Catholic too, and I don't understand why -- if Jesus died to wash away our sins -- they came back as original sin.

    I'm asking a question. Did you ever hear an explanation for that?

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    It is definitely hard to see all the suffering in the world and wonder why God, if some of us do believe He exists, doesn't come down and stop it all. There would be no more car wrecks that kill teenagers or children molested or innocent people put to death.


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    Robynne wrote: Nobody is getting in an uproar. I was raised Catholic too, and I don't understand why -- if Jesus died to wash away our sins -- they came back as original sin. I'm asking a question. Did you ever hear an explanation for that?

    It all boils down to the free will thing, that C mentioned. Original sin was in the Garden of Eden. Babies are baptized "into the faith" (I'm speaking from a Catholic perspective) and sin as humans do.

    I look at it in terms of human frailty; we struggle to do the right thing but if we follow God, it's not always his will.

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    Robynne wrote: Nobody is getting in an uproar. I was raised Catholic too, and I don't understand why -- if Jesus died to wash away our sins -- they came back as original sin. I'm asking a question. Did you ever hear an explanation for that?

    See my edit above. Original sin is the sin of eating the fruit in the Garden of Eden, mainly disobedience. Jesus' sacrifice was to allow people to be saved by grace instead of laws and sacrifices. In that sense, baptism does wash away original sin too but the Catholic church has its own set of stuff with communion and confirmation and all that jazz which differs from other Christian sects.

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    ehvwon wrote: It is definitely hard to see all the suffering in the world and wonder why God, if some of us do believe He exists, doesn't come down and stop it all. There would be no more car wrecks that kill teenagers or children molested or innocent people put to death.

    I have always liked the idea that God gave us all of the tools we need to create heaven on earth, and then moved along to the next Universe, and on an on. Kind of like a cosmic Johnny Appleseed, and I mean that respectfully.

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    Josephine wrote: See my edit above. Original sin is the sin of eating the fruit in the Garden of Eden, mainly disobedience. Jesus' sacrifice was to allow people to be saved by grace instead of laws and sacrifices. In that sense, baptism does wash away original sin too but the Catholic church has its own set of stuff with communion and confirmation and all that jazz which differs from other Christian sects.

    "All that Jazz." Love it. I received the sacraments of baptism, confession, first communion, and confirmation and loved feeling close to God. I would go to church now if there was a church I felt comfortable in, because it sure isn't a Catholic church. I can't reconcile myself and my faith in Jesus with what that "corporation" has done to humanity.

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    Josephine wrote: See my edit above. Original sin is the sin of eating the fruit in the Garden of Eden, mainly disobedience. Jesus' sacrifice was to allow people to be saved by grace instead of laws and sacrifices. In that sense, baptism does wash away original sin too but the Catholic church has its own set of stuff with communion and confirmation and all that jazz which differs from other Christian sects.

    i'm sorry, but that shit is stupid!! seriously stupid. it's just to scare and control people because they fear death so much. and i like "all that jazz" :)

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    Lady Sauce wrote: i'm sorry, but that shit is stupid!! seriously stupid. it's just to scare and control people because they fear death so much. and i like "all that jazz" :)

    Oh I most DEFINITELY believe MANY organized religions were created to keep people in line and control them. Definitely. And the Catholic church is a master at it.

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    Robynne wrote: I have always liked the idea that God gave us all of the tools we need to create heaven on earth, and then moved along to the next Universe, and on an on. Kind of like a cosmic Johnny Appleseed, and I mean that respectfully.

    I like the ideas in CS Lewis' "The Great Divorce" which is a HUGE parable about how we create our lives as heaven or hell AS we live on Earth.

    We all choose to become too attached to certain ideas/things that we believe make us happy ... but they are the very things that make us unhappy. For example, the person who is afraid to leave their home?

    (sorry, still jet-lagged, having a little trouble thinking of a good example)

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    ehvwon wrote: "All that Jazz." Love it. I received the sacraments of baptism, confession, first communion, and confirmation and loved feeling close to God. I would go to church now if there was a church I felt comfortable in, because it sure isn't a Catholic church. I can't reconcile myself and my faith in Jesus with what that "corporation" has done to humanity.

    you know what's interesting? i got all the sacraments too and it made me feel LESS close to god. it all felt so wrong to what i believed god really was. i remember being 7 and thinking confession was just weird. but i believe in jesus teachings

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    ehvwon wrote: "All that Jazz." Love it. I received the sacraments of baptism, confession, first communion, and confirmation and loved feeling close to God. I would go to church now if there was a church I felt comfortable in, because it sure isn't a Catholic church. I can't reconcile myself and my faith in Jesus with what that "corporation" has done to humanity.

    I agree, completely with this.

    Also, I am old enough to remember mass said in Latin, and I loved the ceremony of it. Having to go to confession before taking communion on Sunday felt like I had earned it, and I loved that. And, the priest placing the wafer on my tongue. It felt like the blessing it was meant to be.

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    Robynne wrote: I agree, completely with this. Also, I am old enough to remember mass said in Latin, and I loved the ceremony of it. Having to go to confession before taking communion on Sunday felt like I had earned it, and I loved that. And, the priest placing the wafer on my tongue. It felt like the blessing it was meant to be.

    I do miss the rituals. I miss cantoring. I miss the smell of the incense. I think it's all from my childhood; it's memories.

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    Lady Sauce wrote: you know what's interesting? i got all the sacraments too and it made me feel LESS close to god. it all felt so wrong to what i believed god really was. i remember being 7 and thinking confession was just weird. but i believe in jesus teachings

    See how individual it all is? I LOVED confession, but I couldn't get past original sin.

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    my true belief is that whatever "god" is, it's all about love. loving yourself and trying to love others (although i find that part really hard :)

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    Robynne wrote: See how individual it all is? I LOVED confession, but I couldn't get past original sin.

    you loved confession cauz you're a big sinner :)

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    Lady Sauce wrote: you know what's interesting? i got all the sacraments too and it made me feel LESS close to god. it all felt so wrong to what i believed god really was. i remember being 7 and thinking confession was just weird. but i believe in jesus teachings

    I sure didn't like having to go to mass twice a week in catholic grade school, the mean nuns, or having to go to CCD in high school. But I'm grateful for the faith. It's pulled me through so many times!

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    Just to clarify-

    I was baptized, communionized and confirmed as a Catholic and went to years of catechism to get all that jazz.

    But in the end, I could not reconcile the church, which has a lot of its own stuff separate and apart from the gospels, the intermediary of the church hierarchy between people and God, the lack of the church's concern for the poor, and men telling women they should stay with abusive husbands and have a gazillion children with anything even remotely resembling what a religion should be saying that was even a little Christ-like, so I left.

    And I never found any other Christian religion that held Christ-like behavior to be the most important requirement either.

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    ehvwon wrote: I do miss the rituals. I miss cantoring. I miss the smell of the incense. I think it's all from my childhood; it's memories.

    I feel ya, 100%. It felt good to be part of something larger, until I started to question exactly what I was a part of.

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    Lady Sauce wrote: you loved confession cauz you're a big sinner :)

    How can you possibly know me so well?

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    Maggie wrote: I like the ideas in CS Lewis' "The Great Divorce" which is a HUGE parable about how we create our lives as heaven or hell AS we live on Earth. We all choose to become too attached to certain ideas/things that we believe make us happy ... but they are the very things that make us unhappy. For example, the person who is afraid to leave their home? (sorry, still jet-lagged, having a little trouble thinking of a good example)

    No, I know what you are saying, and I agree.

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    Personally I believe in some creator as well as that things can evolve.. I just believe that God, doesn't really have all the patience to watch all of us like spoiled kids.. Personally I believe that Church is what you make it. It can be a big immense structure or someone's living room. Its pretty much somewhere that you find where you can find that spiritual enlightenment.

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    Lady Sauce wrote: my true belief is that whatever "god" is, it's all about love. loving yourself and trying to love others (although i find that part really hard :)

    Nah, you love really well. You're just not so good at "living with". <3

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    Josephine wrote: Just to clarify- I was baptized, communionized and confirmed as a Catholic and went to years of catechism to get all that jazz. But in the end, I could not reconcile the church, which has a lot of its own stuff separate and apart from the gospels, the intermediary of the church hierarchy between people and God, the lack of the church's concern for the poor, and men telling women they should stay with abusive husbands and have a gazillion children with anything even remotely resembling what a religion should be saying that was even a little Christ-like, so I left. And I never found any other Christian religion that held Christ-like behavior to be the most important requirement either.

    I caused a HUGE uproar in my church because I wanted to take the name "Christopher" as my confirmation name. (That was before he was Pluto-ed out of sainthood.)

    I would not budge right up until the night before, when the priest told me I couldn't be confirmed at all unless I picked a female name, and that I would surely go to Hell. I caved. And then I quit the church.

    And I especially agree with your last paragraph.

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    ehvwon wrote: I sure didn't like having to go to mass twice a week in catholic grade school, the mean nuns, or having to go to CCD in high school. But I'm grateful for the faith. It's pulled me through so many times!

    i did like the incense :)
    hmmmm....but i think that's it

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    Robynne wrote: How can you possibly know me so well?

    i just had to meet you :)

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    Lady Sauce wrote: i just had to meet you :)

    Hahahaha!

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    I was raised Catholic. We were lazy Catholics, though. Church on Easter was about as much we went. The Catholic Church frightens me now. I think they want to eat my soul.

    My theory on God is this. He snapped his fingers and maybe SET IN MOTION the big bang and all that. Then, he left us to our own devices. And we fucked it all up.

    I know I believe in God because when I'm feeling desperate, I'll be like, "Dear God, just let me survive the night and I'll never be bad again, I swear!"

    But I do believe in Evolution. I believe in dinosaurs. I love dinosaurs. I believe there was a guy named Jesus who built sturdy tables and wore uncomfortable shoes and said inspiring things, but I don't think he was the son of God. He was just a pretty cool guy whose mother would be on "Maury" if she existed today, trying to figure out her baby daddy.

    So, yeah, mostly I believe in God, or if not God, then SOMETHING.


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    Lady Sauce wrote: and what exactly is original sin? how does a baby have a sin on it's soul? how is that possible and what is it's soul? and what exactly is "eternal life" in heaven? btw, these were questions i asked myself as i questioned what i was taught....and i didn't come up with satisfactory answers

    I believe Heaven is a place where we are in the presence of God's love and reunited with those we love who have passed. I want to believe that, it gives me peace.

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    I've been to Heaven once. I miraculously found it beneath a girl named Laura's tight jeans when I was 18. Sadly, I only got to stay for about 120 seconds.

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    I just checked back in after doing some work. What did I say that warrants this kind of bullshit?

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    What does your religion have to do with your relationship with God?

    And what would you suggest to those who don't believe in their religion they were brought up in?

    I heard on the radio today that a Catholic Priest was found guilty of molesting over 200 deaf children in Milwaukee.

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    Blondie wrote: What does your religion have to do with your relationship with God? And what would you suggest to those who don't believe in their religion they were brought up in? I heard on the radio today that a Catholic Priest was found guilty of molesting over 200 deaf children in Milwaukee.

    I like the communal worship of belonging to a faith and a church together.

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    Rachel wrote: I believe Heaven is a place where we are in the presence of God's love and reunited with those we love who have passed. I want to believe that, it gives me peace.

    That is very a peaceful, and hope-filled belief. I hope that, for you, it works out that way.

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    Robynne wrote: That is very a peaceful, and hope-filled belief. I hope that, for you, it works out that way.

    Thank you!

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    Robynne wrote: I just checked back in after doing some work. What did I say that warrants this kind of bullshit?

    Don't ever go away, Brynne. I NEED you! ;)

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    Rachel wrote: I believe Heaven is a place where we are in the presence of God's love and reunited with those we love who have passed. I want to believe that, it gives me peace.

    if it gives you peace, then by all means, believe it

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    Rachel wrote: I believe Heaven is a place where we are in the presence of God's love and reunited with those we love who have passed. I want to believe that, it gives me peace.

    oops

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    Ervin wrote: Don't ever go away, Brynne. I NEED you! ;)

    I am not going anywhere, my love. Our little, broken Sparrow is just lashing out. She'll get over it.

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    Rachel wrote: I like the communal worship of belonging to a faith and a church together.

    interesting...that's what i didn't like

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    Ervin wrote: I've been to Heaven once. I miraculously found it beneath a girl named Laura's tight jeans when I was 18. Sadly, I only got to stay for about 120 seconds.

    hahahahahahahaha!

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    God...well, I don't believe in the Baptist, Methodist, Islamic, Judeo-Christian God. That's just a bunch of mythology written by man for man as far as I'm concerned. But the Great Spirit (just a name I like better, I don't believe in the Native American god either), ONE singular creator...now that I do believe in. Responsible for everything in life, the sole keeper of Truth, one with Nature, which is to say more than "tree-worshipping," or "pagan." Nature is always right, unbiased, and holistic. The rainbow, the hurricane, the mudslide, the sunshine, the aphids, the floods, every bit of it involved with the Great Spirit. There is no need for Satan to explain all the "evil" in the world if you understand that shit happens and that you CAN make yourself better through it. No need for a scapegoat, no need for praise, just a healthy acceptance of the world around you and understanding that your part in it is just to do what you do the best way you know how to do it.

    As a point of interest, I was raised Christian (Assemblies of God) and left the church with a vengeance after making quite a fuss about how I would never bring my friends there until they treated the people they already had better. I wasn't very popular there, not necessarily for my mouth (which didn't help), but because of all the cliques of uppity Christian fuckheads (don't take that personally for the love of god). I now attend a Methodist church simply for the joy of their choir. Basically I only participate if there's singing (Doxology, offering prayer, etc). I do not reply with the paragraphs in the handout and I do not tithe. I also do not feel compelled to do so, but it's interesting to me that I could have left church so hatefully a few years before and find myself distant, but appreciative of it now. I am grateful for what my religious upbringing instilled me with (enough sense to not get into trouble needlessly...until college).

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    S
    I believe in the divine and a higher spiritual, powerful force, or forces. I believe in what the Vedas speak of. I believe in believing in this power, or God, and I believe in athiesm- Hinduism philosophies. Common sense, doing good for yourself and for the betterment of this world and all it contains. Let that take whatever form it wishes. Whatever religious form it takes, or doesn't take.

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    I believe in a greater being I pray. When things get tough and I have no consolation I pray. When I have nobody to turn too I pray. Could their be no god? possibly. Like you said it gives me peace as well. Bottom line we will all die and until then we really won't know nothing. I hope I come back a man.

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    I believe in God, and like many other vixens, it has pulled me through the roughest patches in my life. I have also seen things happen in my life that I believe were clearly divine intervention because they seemed impossible before God intervened.

    However, and as a person who used to be in the United Pentecostal Church, which is a sectarian church with cult-like tendencies, I shy away from all sorts of fundamentalist Christian belief. I also no longer believe Christianity is the only true religion.

    This has been a long gradual process and at times difficult, considering it flies in the face of all that I had been taught. That the only way to heaven is through Christianity and only a certain brand of Christianity at that.


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    Do I?: No, I don't believe in God.
    Why not?: Because there's no reason to.
    How did we get here?









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    What I think it all comes down to is that we all have our own beliefs and are entitled to them. However to say "This is right and this is wrong" isn't really feasible because honestly, how the hell would any of us know? WE can say "this is what I believe and why" but to make it into an attack or an attempted conversion or a "let me show you why your beliefs are wrong" type of conversation is where I start to have a problem with it.

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    Carly wrote: What I think it all comes down to is that we all have our own beliefs and are entitled to them. However to say "This is right and this is wrong" isn't really feasible because honestly, how the hell would any of us know? WE can say "this is what I believe and why" but to make it into an attack or an attempted conversion or a "let me show you why your beliefs are wrong" type of conversation is where I start to have a problem with it.

    I agree to an extent. But I also think, when some things are known facts, to allow people to sidestep those facts is wrong. If someone came on here and said two plus two equals five, I wouldn't say believe what you want. I'd say you are incorrect and here's why.

    That being said, one can't be incorrect about the existence of God. It can't be proven one way or another. But in matters of particulars, yes, some things are right and some things are wrong. For instance, and I will say this with certainty, creationists are incorrect. They just are. I'm talking about people who think the earth is 6,000-10,000 years old. That is incorrect.

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    Samantha wrote: I agree to an extent. But I also think, when some things are known facts, to allow people to sidestep those facts is wrong. If someone came on here and said two plus two equals five, I wouldn't say believe what you want. I'd say you are incorrect and here's why. That being said, one can't be incorrect about the existence of God. It can't be proven one way or another. But in matters of particulars, yes, some things are right and some things are wrong. For instance, and I will say this with certainty, creationists are incorrect. They just are. I'm talking about people who think the earth is 6,000-10,000 years old. That is incorrect.

    Ok sorry, let me rephrase, the whole "this is right this is wrong thing" extends to religious conversations, not everything (including scientific fact that pertains to religion like the whole earth being billions of years old thing.)

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    Samantha wrote: I agree to an extent. But I also think, when some things are known facts, to allow people to sidestep those facts is wrong. If someone came on here and said two plus two equals five, I wouldn't say believe what you want. I'd say you are incorrect and here's why. That being said, one can't be incorrect about the existence of God. It can't be proven one way or another. But in matters of particulars, yes, some things are right and some things are wrong. For instance, and I will say this with certainty, creationists are incorrect. They just are. I'm talking about people who think the earth is 6,000-10,000 years old. That is incorrect.

    I agree with what you are saying here about creationists being incorrect and I'm concerned about parents who only want their children taught the creation story.

    Science, reason, logic all say otherwise.

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    I don't believe in God. I don't believe in a higher being. I fully believe and support in scientific explanations of evolution.

    I was raised in a Catholic household and I have a complete understanding and knowledge of religion, and I think the Bible is filled with beautiful stories. But to me that is all they are; just stories. I think they were created in a time when people were apt to follow religion as opposed to government, hence the ten commandments, and when there wasn't enough technology or information as to how we got here, hence the greater being theory.

    I have absolute respect for people who are true to their religion. However a majority of society pisses me off. I hate people who claim to be part of a certain faith, then do not live their lives according to that faith, claiming they can just ask for forgiveness and be covered later. A majority of America are "christian", meanwhile like 92 percent (not an exact number, but around there) of people engage in premarital sex. How the fuck does that work??

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    Robynne wrote: I have always liked the idea that God gave us all of the tools we need to create heaven on earth, and then moved along to the next Universe, and on an on. Kind of like a cosmic Johnny Appleseed, and I mean that respectfully.

    I've never heard that Brynne. Love the analogy.

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