I KNOW.

I am so disgusted. And pissed. I fucking shed a tear when I first heard that damned story!

And the second and third time, too!

Dirty, rotten liars!!

You think Oprah has fired any of her fact checkers for this?

I'd heard that the publisher pulled the book, but I didn't know it was another Oprah-approved book. I sure would hate to be those poor few working for Miss O who are going to take the blame.

Actually, I think the media is overreacting to this and I'm not certain why.

When New York Times and Time Magazine journalists totally fabricated news stories, one got fired and the other got forgiven. Then another NYT reporter was exposed. And another. Authors before these two have been exposed as frauds. And more will follow in these writer's footsteps.

These two people told the truth about their survival of the holocaust.

Then he just added a fabricated romance to the, otherwise, true story.

Was it wrong to do so? Yes. Did it make people hopeful and believe in love? Yes. Did it pull at heartstrings because a concentration camp survivor was part of the love interest? Yes.

Is anyone harmed by the truth besides them? No.

If it was promoted as a novel, it might have sold as well.

But because it was sold as the truth, people are furious at having been duped.

Well, guess what? According to "A Highly Evolved Propensity for Deceit" (New York Times, 12/23/08, Science Times, Page 1), we humans "lie to one another chronically, and with aplomb."

Perhaps our self-righteous indignation in the face of being lied to comes more from being made to feel stupid than from being made to feel good about being in love.

They were wrong.

But guess what, Blondie?

As much as I like you, you're wrong, too.

You said: These two old farts put the "Jew" in "Jew Bastard" if you ask me!!

That is clearly bigoted of you. Hatred in full view.

And as a Jew, I felt offended that you denigrated all Jews is such a manner, simply because one couple of the Jewishl faith lied about the love portion of a story that arose from the ashes of so much hate, in the hands of non-Jewish people who coined the phrase "Jew bastards" and made saying the slur acceptable.

It wasn't acceptable there, and then. And it isn't acceptable here, and now.

Dear Marguerite,

I didn't call anyone a bad word. And I am not a hateful person.

I will not further acknowledge your comments, because you don't know what you are talking about.

I honestly don't know why people do this type of thing. It is a shame because if the story was made up it could have easily been presented as fiction.

To tell a lie with the death camps as the background to draw people in actually makes me feel a little queasy.

Ouch. I can't even read the rest of your question. I'm stopped short by the Jew Bastard comment. You'll likely tell me to lighten up, but I can't see how that line is necessary.

How is what you said, Blondie, not hateful??

And over an Oprah story.

Blondie writes:
I will not further acknowledge your comments, because you don't know what you are talking about.
*******


So, go ahead.

Explain yourself.

What did you mean when you say "They put the "Jew" in "Jew bastard."

My thoughts exactly. So vile.

Josephine writes:
It is a shame because if the story was made up it could have easily been presented as fiction.
*****

I totally agree with you Josephine. It's shameful.

You just said you didn't see anything wrong with their lies.

You said, "These two people told the truth about their survival of the holocaust. Then he just added a fabricated romance to the, otherwise, true story. Was it wrong to do so? Yes. Did it make people hopeful and believe in love? Yes. Did it pull at heartstrings because a concentration camp survivor was part of the love interest? Yes. Is anyone harmed by the truth besides them? No."

Now you think it's shameful??

Blondie, learn to read the entire sentence before you burst an artery half way through.

I clearly wrote, and you clearly copied what I wrote: "Was it wrong to do so? Yes."

I said it was wrong. You IGNORED that I said it was wrong.

But what YOU said was VILE.

If you want me to prove to you just HOW vile people consider it, I will.

That you don't understand is not only shameful; it's tragic.

I don't know, LK.

I have a very eclectic group of friends. Jewish, black, asian, fat, gay, hispanic... if you heard the words they throw around, you would probably be horrified.

Sticks and stones can break your bones, but words will never hurt you.

Hmm. I understand the use of those words in certain contexts. I doubt I would be horrified. I have a very diverse group of friends too, and we don't hold back. The difference is that when we use those words, it's for some purpose. A joke, irony, turning a familiar idea around, whatever. But here? It was totally unnecessary and a perpetuation of a phrase that should have died a long time ago. Especially considering the topic of this post... calling someone a Jew bastard in regards to their time in a concentration camp is completely tasteless. And it takes away from the point of your post, which is a good one.

Words may not break my bones but they do have meaning, impact, and consequences. We shouldn't pretend that they don't, and we should choose them a little more carefully.

That said, I agree with Josephine. There were people who DID throw things over fences to save others' lives, and I'd love to hear those real stories instead.

Again, I didn't call them any names. I said they put the "Jew" in "Jew Bastard".

They are Jewish, and they acted as bastards by making up that huge lie and taking it to the Oprah show, and signing a book deal and all.

Anyway, the term, I thought, was slang for someone manipulative and cheap.

I don't correlate the term at all with anything having to do with the holocaust.

On a semi related topic, did you see the film the "Rape of Europa"? It is an amazing film. If you haven't seen it, I would definitely check it out.

Blondie, I have to first address the racial epithet you decided to use. So uncalled for. I'm sure you're not a hateful person but you should be aware of the things you say. and calling someone a "jew bastard" is indeed racist.

As for the story, itself. Honestly it didn't hurt anybody. Did they need to lie about? No. But people have fabricated stories about things culminating in much worse consequences. However lying for the sake of lying is just ridiculous.

Oops, I take that back. I DID call them "old farts".

I stand by my statement. They are two old farts.

Blondie, how do you not understand that this comment is offensive, when you equate a "jew bastard" with someone manipulative and cheap? You think that a "jew bastard" is someone manipulative and cheap--but that's not calling people names . Bastard means someone born illegitimately. So which part of this phrase would mean manipulative and cheap? I'm guessing the word Jew. Do you see how this would be offensive to Jews? Or to anyone?

I don't mean to give you a history lesson here, but once upon a time, money lending was about the only job jews were allowed to have in Europe. This perpetuated a myth that they were greedy and cheap, despite the fact that their professions had nothing to do with any natural inclination towards it, and everything to do with the fact that they were essentially left with nothing else to do. Then this "cheap, manipulative" nature was an argument used by Hitler to justify the idea that they were inferior and dangerous and needed to be exterminated. The idea that they were "crafty and manipulative" was used in lots of propoganda, that facilitated the Holocaust. So to call two holocaust survivors "jew bastards"--manipulative, cheap, illegitimate--because they lied about a love affair is bad. It's just bad. Not trying to gang up on you. I truly think you didn't mean it in seriousness. Just trying to let you know why you should be careful with your words. Because words won't hurt you--but the stereotypes, and the fear those stereotypes facilitate, and the violence that ensues when people are afraid, will hurt people. Very much.

Well said Samantha....I don't think Blondie means it how it sounds.

1. There's an overreaction to this by the media. It's not all a BIG FAT LIE, actually.

2. "Jew Bastard" isn't necessary, even if you weren't being serious.

I'm just surprised they used the Holoucaust / Nazi theme as the springboard for which they sought fame, money or ratings. It's hardly original.

Since the 1990's there has been a surge of Holocaust-related films, T.V. series and documentaries. It started before Schindler's List and will carry on way after Valkyrie.

They should've been more creative. I'm thinking Siamese twins seaparated at birth. One pretends to be all brain, the other pretends they're all heart. They reunite on national TV to become the perfect human. Not that I, you know, would try to pull something like that.

Samantha, thank you for being the one to insert the history lesson. Somehow, I don't think Blondie would have accepted it from me.

One thing. Moneylending wasn't "about the only" job a Jew was allowed to have. It was the ONLY job. Every Jew of every social standing was stripped of his/her profession, home, and possessions, and entrusted with ONLY the lending of money.

I wonder, Blondie, if someone wrote, "Jesus is a Jew. So they put the Jesus in Jew Bastard," would it offend you? Would you then grasp the offense of what you wrote?

Just a thought.

Thanks to all you who stepped up on this.

Truly.

thoughtprovoking

Blondie, you are in over your head with this one. What you wrote was offensive, and you do that A LOT with your posts. You ridicule, make silly statements, and you expect people to understand that you are wasting their time.

Grow up.

These two old farts put the "Jew" in "Jew Bastard" if you ask me!!

Blondie, there is no excuse for you ever typing this, no matter your explanations. And for you to dismiss the people you have offended, as not being valid, not matter WHAT you intended, is just complete ignorance.

There is so very much wrong with what you just said. I think everyone else has explained it better than I could have. Please take a step back and reevaluate. You're way better than this.

Yeah I saw Rape of Europa. I'm in art history and I thought it was fascinating... added a whole other layer to everything I've learned about WWII and about art!

I am a minority on two counts - woman and Hispanic. So, you can imagine I've thought of this a lot. I'll give you a personal story and then tell you how I feel:

C (a white male) and I were in Alabama at an I-Hop recently. As we were leaving, a middle-aged, ugly, fat white woman looked at C, then looked at me and shook her head with a look of disgust.

My thoughts:
#1. Racist pig
#2. Thank God I live in a big city where people are more evolved.
#3. Maybe she wasn't being racists. But wait, what if maybe she was shaking her head at something else. Am I God to be in her head and know what she's thinking?
#4. What does it matter what people think about me? I'm who I am and no one can take that away from me.

So, my thoughts on this?

It is a tragedy that this couple used a horrific thing (the Holocaust) and embedded it with a lie to make money. I think a novel (fiction) with the same story would have been a big hit.

Marguerite 13, you are ridiculous to talk about wanting someone (i.e. Blondie) to be more sensitive with her words and then say what you did about Jesus. You need to apply that yardstick of self righteousness to yourself before you swing it at someone else.

Remember, we can never be in someone's head to know exactly what they think, feel or mean. What we can do is let them know how something makes us feel and hear them out.

No, we can't be in someone's head. But now Blondie has told us what she meant:

They are Jewish, and they acted as bastards by making up that huge lie and taking it to the Oprah show, and signing a book deal and all. Anyway, the term, I thought, was slang for someone manipulative and cheap.

That's pretty straightforward. Clearly, Blondie didn't mean to be malicious, but ignorance is not an excuse.

Sugah writes:
Marguerite 13, you are ridiculous to talk about wanting someone (i.e., Blondie) to be more sensitive with her words and then say what you did about Jesus. You need to apply that yardstick of self righteousness to yourself before you swing it at someone else.
********

Please reread what I wrote.

I wrote it as a QUESTION -- not as a statement. Not as an epithet.

I asked how Blondie would feel if that was said by comparison.

I asked it in an attempt to help her understand why any such proclamation would be wrong.

I made the comparison for comprehension's sake.

If you can't grasp the difference between asking a comparative question, and making a slur, that's unfortunate.

Finding me ridiculous is your prerogative.

It speaks as much to who you are, as to who I am.

I'm quite comfortable with that.

So, thank you.

Blondie writes:

Anyway, the term, I thought, was slang for someone manipulative and cheap.

********

To make the words "Jew" and "Jew bastard" synonymous with "manipulative and cheap" is a slur.

But you're right.

It is slang.

It's slang used by bigots.

It has come to my attention that you are an ignorant bigot, Blondie. So perhaps I should come out of retirement to set you straight on a few things:

INDIVIDUALS are just that. Certainly, the two individuals in question are guilty of a type of duplicity that it somewhat reprehensible given the solemnity of the Holocaust. But judging an entire group of people on the basis of the actions of certain INDIVIDUAL members of the larger group, IS a form of bigotry.

I happen to hate it when others say things like, "Y'know, that OJ Simpson really gives blacks a bad name." Or, "Jews should be ashamed of Bernard Madoff." Um, in the first place, since when did either of those two INDIVIDUALS become the standard bearer or achetype of all blacks or Jews? Jackie Robinson was a black athlete who happened not to have been OJ. Albert Einstein was not Bernard Madoff.

Guess what else? Famous women have included Eleanor Roosevelt and Marie Curie; also Andrea Yates and Paris Hilton.

I wouldn't compare you to Miss Hilton, as that would doubtless be doing her a disservice. But then again, you are no Madame Curie, either.

So it's a good thing that it takes all kinds, I reckon.

I've stayed out of this one so far. But I have to say that I absolutely cringed when I read what you'd written, Blondie. I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't mean to offend anyone. I realize that the written word is devoid of irony, inflection and tone of voice. So it's hard to know what the true intention was. Regardless, ugly words are ugly words. The "J.B." term you used just spread a bunch of really bad energy. It's a reminder for us all to be careful in choosing how we express ourselves.

yo, and she dissed my neighborhood!

I love it!

Sweetie, I normally avoid jumping into the middle of this kind of argument, but your exact words were "These two old farts put the "Jew" in "Jew Bastard" if you ask me!!"

I will happily defend your right to say whatever you want, no matter how ignorant -- but you can't say that you "didn't call anyone a bad word."

As for the larger issue... The man who wrote the book survived a Nazi concentration camp, came to America and found true love. He was trying to make sense of his life, and -- more poignantly -- trying to reconcile the joy of his long marriage with the horrors he endured.

Should he have claimed that these events actually happened? No. But, I sincerely doubt that he did it just for fame or money, and there are literally dozens of people who were supposed to be checking the facts along the way who dropped the ball.

By lashing out using the specific words that you did -- "Jew" and "Jew Bastard" -- you are weirdly making the Nazi point that this man didn't do something wrong because he is a man, but because he is a Jew.

You need to look at that attitude, hon.

I agree. "Jew Bastard" shouldn't be a word you consider so prevalent that you're giving the "derivation" for it. That's really offensive of you.

Thank you Brynne. You make a fine point.

But, truly. I don't know why anyone would stay out of this.

I never understand why anyone would hesitate to speak out against bigotry, racism, or prejudice, regardless of who is the target.

I phrased that badly; my apologies, Marguerite.

I was trying to say that I normally stay out of "you said this/no, I didn't" arguments, but felt that the larger issue demanded a response.

Again. Thanks.

I have apologized more on this site than many people, mostly because I've needed to. I've said things thoughtlessly without considering how they'd be interpreted or whose feelings they'd hurt.

But I have apologized when I've been brought to my senses and realized my errors...that's what we as humans need to do, we need to be humbled and make right the wrongs, and ask for forgiveness.

That isn't happening and I don't know the reason.

Just wanted to say that I have the UTMOST respect for you.

The very fact that you used Jew Bastard to mean manipulative and cheap is EXACTLY what makes it a slur, and one you should be ashamed of, more so than anything this couple wrote. Regardless of what your so-called friends may say amongst each other, it is CLEARLY offending and raising the hackles of several people who are Jewish.

Remove it.

As for the story itself, remember what your mother always told you? "Do you always believe everything you read?" Well, it's the same with this story. I hate to tell you this, but oftentimes when you see a so-called autobiographical movie, there is at least one main character who never really existed and is instead an amalgamation of several characters and people in that person's life. The example that came straight to mind is Gia - her girlfriend's character was a melange of several women in her life. Sure, the movie acknowledges it, but does that make it any more truthful? Gia was a real person, but this girlfriend was not.

I agree, it would be easier and better to call it what it is - fiction - and then have the poetic license to say what one wants to say. I fail to understand such a calling for memoirs that one has to make it up, but then, reality tv isn't much different, is it? Simply a visual "memoir" of a group of people's time together that is filmed, redone and even sometimes scripted or "suggested". Not so "real".

If you enjoyed the idea of this story, then enjoy it. Change your thinking over to it being fiction and read it anyway. A good story is a good story regardless of the truth of it, because it's about the human element in it. Otherwise, futuristic stories would never interest us.

I've just been hoping that Blondie will admit her wrongdoing, but she won't. She has submitted quite a few unnecessary comments recently.

I have heard many racial slurs either toward someone else or at me directly, and no matter who is on the other end, it hurts. I have even received them from "friends". Makes me realize that it may NEVER go away. It's all around, and it's sad. Despicable. It truly disgusts me to the inner core.

"Sticks and stones?" That is ridiculously juvenile.

A racial slur received from a friend is no friend indeed.

This is EXACTLY why I am for unrestricted free speech. A foolish person lets you know where they stand straight from their own mouth.
I'm not offended by much, and don't know why people get upset about what others say, especially when they are obviously less than intelligent.
I take issue with people who try to censor others, no matter what was said. The funny part of this is that the poster doesn't realize that what she said was a slur. This is much more a study in foolishness than bigotry.
For those of you who want to censor the national discourse, especially on race, imagine if you will, a world where everyone was so politically correct that they never gave you any sense verbally of where they stood. Wouldn't you rather have things out in the open, so you could make a prudent decision about who you want to associate with?
Blondie has therefore done you a favor.
So don't let it bother you too much Margherite, and kudos for patiently explaining something that should have been obvious to two apparent nitwits.

When I first read the post, I sort of skimmed it quickly and only really paid attention to the question. Now, I've come back and seen that all hell has broken loose here. Eesh.

First off, regarding the book. As a writer, I am definitely offended by a book that pretends to be the truth when it's not. Forget movies...you know it's probably mostly fiction if it's a film. But a memoir, yeah, forgive me if I feel like the words contained within should be truthful. I understand that everyone's memories of past events might differ slightly. But the core of the story is how this couple met during the Holocuast and it was ALL A LIE. I don't think there's any defending that sort of thing. It's sad. If it was to be published as fiction, then awesome! But it wasn't. It was intended to be published as a TRUE STORY, so, yeah, I think it's dispicable. It may not ALL be a big fat lie, but CLOSE ENOUGH.

I'm all for people being able to express themselves and such, but clearly Blondie's post has offended a lot of people, and even if she didn't intend to, she has.

We all write things that we might go back to later and think, "Wow, did I really write that? What was I thinking?" But when we screw up, we've got to set things straight. God knows, I've said a lot of dumb things in my life, and apologized sincerely to those I offended. I wish Blondie would just come back and say, "I'm sorry." I really don't think she intended her words to come across the way they did. Still, what she wrote was clearly hurtful. So, Blondie, pleeeease come back and set things right. I think you're better than the words you wrote, and I think everyone would be willing to move on if you sincerely said it was a mistake, and that you're sorry.

I mean, wow, I'm even sorry that I didn't take more notice of it when I responded to the post. My ex, whom I dated for several years, is Jewish, and I almost got into a few fights over the years because of things people said about her that they thought were "funny." But hateful speak is never funny.

Anyway, I wish this whole thread never existed. I wish I could wiggle my nose and make it all go away, 'cause it makes me very, very sad.

The people here on AV are a little bit of everything: male, female, gay, straight, Jewish, Filipino, white, black, polka dot, whatever. But the connective tissue that holds us all together is our compassion for one another. And I hope we never lose that.

Take care.

Also, I totally love Cyndi Lauper. She was my first musical crush. I so wanted to marry her when I was ten. "I see your truuuuuu colors shining thruuuuuuuuu....."

Thomas writes:
So don't let it bother you too much Margherite, and kudos for patiently explaining something that should have been obvious to two apparent nitwits.
******

I agree with you. It's why I'm glad there are people who post their feelings as bumper stickers. It gives us all a heads up as to what's in their hearts.

Theresa writes:
I have apologized more on this site than many people, mostly because I've needed to. I've said things thoughtlessly without considering how they'd be interpreted or whose feelings they'd hurt. But I have apologized when I've been brought to my senses and realized my errors...that's what we as humans need to do, we need to be humbled and make right the wrongs, and ask for forgiveness.

That isn't happening and I don't know the reason.

******

Your post has reminded me of this observation by the Englishman Sydney Smith (1771-1845):

"Never try to reason the prejudice out of a man. It was not reasoned into him, and cannot be reasoned out."

T.M.Long writes:
Just wanted to say that I have the UTMOST respect for you.
*****

And I for you, lady. Woman. Girly. Female. Babe.

(I hope you're laughing, cuz I am!)

But truly.

Me4u2!

I guess someone died and made you god? I don't give a rat's ass what you "think" of me...esp. since you "know" me so well.

I think we might be waiting awhile for an apology, since Blondie's grandfather just died. I doubt this is the most important thing on her mind right now. Nonetheless, I hope we get one eventually.

For me, an apology isn't necessary.

Blondie has one view. I have another. Ya'll have yours.

My need to be right isn't nearly as important to me as my need to be heard.

Thankfully, we all get heard in EJeanland.

This is what I'm thinking.

Sometimes this is unfortunate as some are really desperately in need of a muzzle.

I concur.

Darlings, I apologize that I have upset so many people here!

However, I don't apologize for anything I have written. I will not censor myself with a politically correct agenda.

Words. Are. Just. Words.

I agree that some words are better left unsaid. In fact, there are some posts here on AV that were made just today that I find quite uncivilized. But I am not the language police.

I would like to remind everyone that I didn't call anyone a bad name. I did infer it, I will admit that. But those people did an awful, bad thing.

My views and beliefs (and sense of humor) are my own. I don't expect anyone to understand me 100% since we are here communicating on an internet forum.

And for the record, I love the Ravenswood neighborhood of Chicago. The homes are beautiful and the people are diverse. But the nightlife for a 23 year old is much more fun in Lincoln Park.

Word.

I concur.

WOW

Thank you, LK.

Are you saying I put the "dumb" in dumb blonde??

I want to invite you to my next dinner party, Thomas. You have quite an interesting viewpoint.

Nope, wouldn't offend me.

I wouldn't even be offended if you said Britney put the "hot" in "hot mess" or "white" in "white trash".

Sorry to hear about your grandfather, Blondie. Take care, and I wish you all the best in '09.

Ugh Blondie. The fact that you consider calling someone a hot mess the same kind of insult as calling someone a Jew bastard is bad enough. It's not the same thing, not even close. Please stop making yourself look so ignorant.

PS it's not about censorship. Nobody can tell you what to say or not to say. It's about being a decent person and recognizing that you don't HAVE to say derogatory slurs just because you have the right to.

I don't HAVE to say derogatory words and I usually don't.

I also do not think that hot mess and jew bastard are the same level of insult.

Please stop trying to decipher my intent.

Fine, you're right. You are the only person who can decipher your own intent. But please choose your words more carefully from now on. It's not about political correctness, its just being respectful.

I came back to see if my secret santa gift reached its intended, but like Matt, I'll going to pull my head out of the sand long enough to add a point to the original jist of the OP.

DID ANYONE ELSE SEE TITANIC??????????

Come on people, don't sit there and tell me how dreadful it is they used the holocaust in poor taste for the backdrop of a love story.

Tragedy is what it is and I don't think we have any right to put a taboo on it. Why disregard the elephants in the room. Yes they went about it the wrong way, but for my thinking, even if it's fictional, if it makes more people aware of the atrocities that took place, then maybe it will sit longer in the social consciousness and may indeed help prevent such an event in the future.

How many war movies have been made around fictional characters? Are we honouring our soldiers or disrespecting them?

Yeah they lied, and people are still dying on the Gaza strip. How about a little perspective people.

Blondie, you were out of line. You can't argue that your comments are just words when you are here because of your outrage that a long string of words you believed to be fact turned out to be fiction.

Marguerite 13 - You've crossed plenty of boundaries in here, so you are hardly one to talk. I stopped engaging with your comments long before I left for that very reason. But instead of entering fruitless debates over it, I decided to save my energy and put it elsewhere.

Maybe all of you with friends that bandy about such volatile terms need to rethink it, because if they see fit to use it for whatever reason, then it just keeps those terms out there for anyone to use, and they may just be used against you.

Oh and Happy New Year!